e-mails getting rejected - Page 4

DougLass · 29 Mar 2023, 09:34 PM

Let's get specific here. I know I have a delivery issue with Outlook. Outlook client recipients have my e-mails thrown in their Junk files. I just got a DMARC Report for Outlook. The DMARC XML-to-Human Converter finds this ...
https://us.dmarcian.com/dmarc-xml/details/6xjZ3CKQSRyE8DeN/

If you scroll down to the bottom, and open up Microsoft 365, you see, for *.outlook.com, Compliance: 100% (SPF: 0%, DKIM: 100%)

Now, what the heck does SPF: 0% mean? As I say over and over, my SPF has been reviewed, endorsed, approved, and applauded by Hostgator, my domain source, and Sender, my listserve provider. This is just the Converter telling me what I was seeing in the xml text file that I reported on earlier. I'm being told that something is wrong (as in, UNcompliant) and I don't have a clue what it is.

FWIW, the DMARC Report Analyzer tells me that on "SPF Alignment", my domain fails. I have specified "relaxed" alignment and as far as I can tell,my DMARC is complete. Isn't that enough to pass muster?

Avion · 29 Mar 2023, 09:49 PM

Did the email in the report reach it's recipient?

DougLass · 29 Mar 2023, 09:53 PM

As I say, as far as I know, all of our e-mails are received by Outlook clients, and thrown in their Junk folders. I'm asking if SPF compliance = 0% is why.

Avion · 29 Mar 2023, 09:57 PM

The report indicates the email is forwarded, if you look on the report for 'DKIM survival', there's the letter 'i' in a blue circle, which reads:

Quote:

Forwarded email can only be authenticated via DKIM. Due to how messages are forwarded through different types of infrastructure, DKIM signatures are often inadvertently broken by forwarders. For forwarded email, your DMARC compliance is equal to the 'survival' of your DKIM signatures as they travel through forwarders.

That may explain why the SPF is reported as failing. I don't do forwarded emails myself, perhaps someone else could explain better.

DougLass · 29 Mar 2023, 10:13 PM

Ah, thank you. Now, I'm not forwarding anything, so I guess someone else is. But does that mean that if my e-mail is forwarded, it can get rejected because my SPF doesn't anticipate that forwarding?

JeremyNicoll · 30 Mar 2023, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougLass

Well, xml files are *supposed* to be openable in a modern browser. When you try to do that with these, what I reported is the complaint that you get from the browser.

I think what I was trying to say is that it's NOT a complaint. There's nothing wrong with the files.

The files ARE openable, and DO get displayed with (at least) basic colouring.

DougLass · 30 Mar 2023, 06:24 AM

Sorry. Compliance 0% sure doesn't mean there is nothing wrong. Yes, the files are openable, once peolpe,fish them out of their Junk folder where their mail server put them.

JeremyNicoll · 30 Mar 2023, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougLass

Sorry. Compliance 0% sure doesn't mean there is nothing wrong.

I don't understand what you mean. I'm talking about the XML files, purely as a data exchange format, not about whatever message (about SPF/DMARC) that that data is conveying.

The example XML content you posted and that I used in my experiment was well-formed, as were those used (typically to store configuration data) by applications running on my PC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougLass

Yes, the files are openable, once peolpe,fish them out of their Junk folder where their mail server put them.

Surely an XML file doesn't of itself end up in a junk folder? Surely it's the email that it was attached to that does?

And if it does, it's some aspect of the setup of your email client (or webmail system) or its lack of flexibility or your lack of control over it that means that happens.

Emails do not end up in junk folders on either of the webmail-based systems I use (one is a version of Roundcube, the other Fastmail's system). But one needs to configure them according to what one wishes to have happen.

DougLass · 30 Mar 2023, 06:48 AM

Not sure what we're arguing about here. My problem is that e-mails I send with my listserve provider are getting shunted to people's Junk folder because their e-mail server thinks there is something wrong with them. That's what I mean. I don't know what's wrong with them. Whether DKIM, DMARC, SPF or maybe just that someone thinks that my IP is a spammer, when it really isn't. It's a minor side issue that these XML files aren't browser readable and oddly zipped, and I don't really care much about them. Just strikes me as kinda silly. That's all. The way your e-mails avoid Junk folders isn't relevant here. It's about *my* e-mails going to Junk folders. Yes, one has to configure them according to what one wishes to have happen. Evidently, mine aren't being configured right, and I'd like to know why.

Avion · 30 Mar 2023, 03:46 PM

I've just looked at your DMARC record, and note that for both the main and any subdomains, it is set to 'quarantine', and that is what appears to be happening at the recipient end - the e-mail, going to the junk folder, has in effect been quarantined.

Perhaps you could try, replacing 'quarantine' with 'none', and see if that makes any difference.

I also note that the DMARC reports are to be sent to yourself AND another email address? Personally, I would remove that second address, unless that is what you definitely want.

DougLass · 30 Mar 2023, 09:21 PM

OK, I have replaced "quarantine" with "none". As to delivery, there are two things being delivered - the aggregate reports and the error reports.They are delivered to both me and mxtoolbox, which I guess does a regular analysis of them.

DougLass · 31 Mar 2023, 02:16 AM

I just got a new report. My "SPF authentication" is fine, but my "SPF alignment" is still failing. Now, I really don't know how to fix that.

Avion · 31 Mar 2023, 02:24 AM

I'd be inclined to 'let it ride' for a while, and see how your current set up and delivery is working, unfortunately with these daily DMARC reports it's too easy to become fixated on the minutiae.

DougLass · 31 Mar 2023, 02:27 AM

Probably right, but I am being told that something is wrong, and it would be nice to have a clue about how to fix it. It may well, however, not be the source of my real problem.

hadaso · 3 Apr 2023, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougLass

I just got a new report. My "SPF authentication" is fine, but my "SPF alignment" is still failing. Now, I really don't know how to fix that.

AFAIK "SPF alignment" means that the address in the From header (the author's address) is the same as the address in the envelope-from (i.e., the return address, used in the SMTP transaction FROM statement).

29 Mar 2023, 09:34 PM	#46
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	Let's get specific here. I know I have a delivery issue with Outlook. Outlook client recipients have my e-mails thrown in their Junk files. I just got a DMARC Report for Outlook. The DMARC XML-to-Human Converter finds this ... https://us.dmarcian.com/dmarc-xml/details/6xjZ3CKQSRyE8DeN/ If you scroll down to the bottom, and open up Microsoft 365, you see, for .outlook.com, Compliance: 100% (SPF: 0%, DKIM: 100%)* Now, what the heck does SPF: 0% mean? As I say over and over, my SPF has been reviewed, endorsed, approved, and applauded by Hostgator, my domain source, and Sender, my listserve provider. This is just the Converter telling me what I was seeing in the xml text file that I reported on earlier. I'm being told that something is wrong (as in, UNcompliant) and I don't have a clue what it is. FWIW, the DMARC Report Analyzer tells me that on "SPF Alignment", my domain fails. I have specified "relaxed" alignment and as far as I can tell,my DMARC is complete. Isn't that enough to pass muster? Last edited by DougLass : 29 Mar 2023 at 09:45 PM.

30 Mar 2023, 03:46 PM	#55
Avion Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 90	I've just looked at your DMARC record, and note that for both the main and any subdomains, it is set to 'quarantine', and that is what appears to be happening at the recipient end - the e-mail, going to the junk folder, has in effect been quarantined. Perhaps you could try, replacing 'quarantine' with 'none', and see if that makes any difference. I also note that the DMARC reports are to be sent to yourself AND another email address? Personally, I would remove that second address, unless that is what you definitely want. Last edited by Avion : 30 Mar 2023 at 08:23 PM.

29 Mar 2023, 09:49 PM	#47
Avion Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 90	Did the email in the report reach it's recipient?

29 Mar 2023, 09:53 PM	#48
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	As I say, as far as I know, all of our e-mails are received by Outlook clients, and thrown in their Junk folders. I'm asking if SPF compliance = 0% is why.

29 Mar 2023, 10:13 PM	#50
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	Ah, thank you. Now, I'm not forwarding anything, so I guess someone else is. But does that mean that if my e-mail is forwarded, it can get rejected because my SPF doesn't anticipate that forwarding?

30 Mar 2023, 06:24 AM	#52
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	Sorry. Compliance 0% sure doesn't mean there is nothing wrong. Yes, the files are openable, once peolpe,fish them out of their Junk folder where their mail server put them.

30 Mar 2023, 06:48 AM	#54
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	Not sure what we're arguing about here. My problem is that e-mails I send with my listserve provider are getting shunted to people's Junk folder because their e-mail server thinks there is something wrong with them. That's what I mean. I don't know what's wrong with them. Whether DKIM, DMARC, SPF or maybe just that someone thinks that my IP is a spammer, when it really isn't. It's a minor side issue that these XML files aren't browser readable and oddly zipped, and I don't really care much about them. Just strikes me as kinda silly. That's all. The way your e-mails avoid Junk folders isn't relevant here. It's about my e-mails going to Junk folders. Yes, one has to configure them according to what one wishes to have happen. Evidently, mine aren't being configured right, and I'd like to know why.

30 Mar 2023, 09:21 PM	#56
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	OK, I have replaced "quarantine" with "none". As to delivery, there are two things being delivered - the aggregate reports and the error reports.They are delivered to both me and mxtoolbox, which I guess does a regular analysis of them.

31 Mar 2023, 02:16 AM	#57
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	I just got a new report. My "SPF authentication" is fine, but my "SPF alignment" is still failing. Now, I really don't know how to fix that.

31 Mar 2023, 02:24 AM	#58
Avion Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 90	I'd be inclined to 'let it ride' for a while, and see how your current set up and delivery is working, unfortunately with these daily DMARC reports it's too easy to become fixated on the minutiae.

31 Mar 2023, 02:27 AM	#59
DougLass Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 56	Probably right, but I am being told that something is wrong, and it would be nice to have a clue about how to fix it. It may well, however, not be the source of my real problem.