New folders screen on beta server

[robmueller]

I've finally got around to finishing off a bunch of work on the new folders screen and I've put it up on beta.

* The create section at the top shows the basics for creating a folder, but allows you to expand to show all the available options
* The folder list at the bottom is now sorted in the same order as the folder list on the mailbox screen, rather than the odd order it was
* Moving + renaming folders is now a bit saner, rather than the rather odd system used previously
* The biggest oddity is how you change the options on folders. I wanted a way that would allow adding more options in the future, and the current grid system just wasn't going to scale. So I've tried to do something like the iTunes method when you select multipe items and select "Properties". You get the options, but checkboxes next to each to control which to actually set.

Rob

[hadaso]

Looks great!

I think "copy properties from folder:" with a drop down of folders can be helpful (such as when adding a subfolder that one want's to have the same or similar properties as an existing one. It can live with the "advanced options" and "edit properties" and should just insert the copied values in the form so that they can be further edited.

[zhak]

Rob, what shows when hovering over 'Props' does not reflect the correct (current) preview settings for as I can tell, any of my folders. It shows 'All' when the setting is actually 'Unread' and shows 'Unread' when the setting is actually 'None'. Also, the Folder Properties screen that you get to when you click 'edit' needs a 'cancel' button. Otherwise you have to click 'back' and get the postdata warning. I was wary of clicking 'Done' since the settings don't match...

Page loads much faster (I have a lot of folders). Thanks.

Added: The display being the actual sorted list is a vast improvement.

Added: Also, I selected a group of 10 folders to look at the method of mass changes (which is great), did nothing to the folders, then clicked done to return to the options screen. I went back to the folders screen (now only showing the first 20 folders), and if I selected a folder to delete from that first 20 folders, it would have actually deleted all 11 folders as the previous 10 were still selected. The warning you get when clicking 'delete' is not detailed enough to see what would have happened. Basically, the 'selection' should be cleared when you click 'done' and leave the folders screen. This may have always been the case, I'll just be careful!

-Jim

[Berenburger]

Originally Posted by robmueller

The biggest oddity is how you change the options on folders. I wanted a way that would allow adding more options in the future, and the current grid system just wasn't going to scale. So I've tried to do something like the iTunes method when you select multipe items and select "Properties". You get the options, but checkboxes next to each to control which to actually set.

Little odd, indeed. Why not display the properties when you hover over the edit column. Clicking is editing. The Properties column then isn't needed anymore. Then rename the header above the Edit column in Properties

[Chipper]

Originally Posted by robmueller

* The biggest oddity is how you change the options on folders. I wanted a way that would allow adding more options in the future, and the current grid system just wasn't going to scale.

Hmmm. The "rename" area seems to "steal" a lot of screen real estate. The current method allows a lot of stuff that the new method does not:
* Click on the various columns to sort (name, priority, #msgs, personality)
* Click on drop down box to change a property

A few thoughts:
* Possibly remove the "rename" column. Do people rename folders frequently? (I don't but perhaps other users frequently do so.)
* Make the current method an "Advanced View" and the new method "Basic View."

[zhak]

Ha, never tried clicking on 'Folder' to sort the list, that's why I said the new layout was a vast improvement. Sheesh.

Added: To redeem myself, how about this view or this.

I'm not critical of everything Rob -- really -- just thought it might your needs of being able to add properties without redesigning the page, while still letting users easily see/edit the properties.

[ewal]

I like it! Very intuitive.

Couple of suggestions, in addition to the ones above.

1. Where one defines the default personality for a new folder (under advanced options) it would be really neat if one could define a new
personality here as well (perhaps by spawning the personality screen as a child process?). So often when I create a new folder I also wish to
create a new personality and currently one has to go back and forwards between the relevant screens to achieve this.

2. Under Properties it would be really cool if the disc space used by that folder can be displayed. After all disc space used is a Property. I know that this info is displayed on the Quota Sceen as well.

Oh, also a small inconsistency. If there is a sub-folder then the sort priority should be shown automatically to be inherited from its parent. As it stands now one can seemingly enter a completely different sort priority for the sub-folder but that of course makes no sense and does nothing.


Ed

[zhak]

Originally Posted by ewal

Oh, also a small inconsistency. If there is a sub-folder then the sort priority should be shown automatically to be inherited from its parent. As it stands now one can seemingly enter a completely different sort priority for the sub-folder but that of course makes no sense and does nothing.

You can have sort priorities for subfolders too. That way all subfolders (under a particular folder) are not sorted alphabetically.

[hadaso]

Originally Posted by ewal

...
1. Where one defines the default personality for a new folder (under advanced options) it would be really neat if one could define a new
personality here as well (perhaps by spawning the personality screen as a child process?). ...

This sort of functionality can be useful in many places. Such as when filing a message one might want to file in a new folder, so getting a mini-folders-screen that as a "subprocess" could do the job. When defining a personality one might want to create a sig to go with it (I think this sorta works this way already). This is something that might be worth thinking about with the redesign of the interface, i.e. to put in the design the ability to inject this "sub-processes" when they are needed in the future, as well as the use of "property editing screen" that can be useful so that more features can be added later without having to rethink the design each time.

[Chipper]

Originally Posted by ewal

Oh, also a small inconsistency. If there is a sub-folder then the sort priority should be shown automatically to be inherited from its parent. As it stands now one can seemingly enter a completely different sort priority for the sub-folder but that of course makes no sense and does nothing.

Let me see if I'm understanding your suggestion correctly:

Folder 1 is sort priority 10
Folder 2 is sort priority 20
Folder 3 is a sub of Folder 1 and has a sort priority of 10
Folder 4 is a sub of Folder 1 and has a sort priority of 5

So... the order would be
Folder 1 (Primary Sort 10)
Folder 4 (Primary Sort 10, Secondary Sort 5)
Folder 3 (Primary Sort 10, Secondary Sort10)
Folder 2 (Primary Sort 20)

And of course it would continue with Tertiary Sort. Ditto for Quaternary, Quinary, Senary, Septenary, Octonary, Nonary, Denary Sorts. (OK, I guess I got carried away -- probably nobody would have 10 subfolders. )

[ewal]

zhak and chipper

You guys are correct, I had not thought of the situation of many subfolders. Typically I only have one sub-folder and in that sitaution I would not need to have different sort orders. I think I would find it difficult having a deep sub-folder structure.

hadaso

Actually this subprocess thinking is used as of now. This in respect of the personality screen where one can edit the signature (by directly calling the signature process) and upon exit from that subprocess are returned to the calling process (the personality screen). And you are right, this type of subprocessing could be usefully used in many areas of the Fastmail interface.

Ed

[robmueller]

I've updated the screen now with some more changes

1. The Props column is gone, it's now attached to the Edit link
2. The popup also include all the information now (including folder name, sort priority, etc) so it's clear which one you're looking at
3. I got rid of the "Reset sort priority" and "Purge/archive folders" links at the top, and made them buttons on the right hand side of the action bar
4. I also added a "Quota usage..." button that takes you to the quota screen. While it would have been nice to be able to show the quota usage on the folders screen, unfortunately for users with serveral large folders (eg me) it can be a bit slow to calculate, so I preferred it to be on a separate screen
5. The personalities menu now has a "Edit Personalities" button next to it that takes you to the personalities screen

hadaso: The "copy properties" is a good idea, I'll check that out.

zhak: Are you still having problems with the popup showing the wrong information? I can't reproduce that problem.

Also when you say the warning message wasn't detailed enough, which warning message? Did you notice that if you have selected folders that aren't visible on the current page, it actually gives you TWO warning message?

Rob

[hadaso]

Originally Posted by robmueller

1. The Props column is gone, it's now attached to the Edit link

The title for the column can still say "Properties".

5. The personalities menu now has a "Edit Personalities" button next to it that takes you to the personalities screen

It would be good if the "personalities" screen would open in the personality already selected in the drop-down in the "create folder" (or "edit properties") form. And also if accessed from the "create folder" form it means it was in "advanced option shown" mode so upon return it should be in that mode (currently returning from "personalities" to "folders: has "folders" in "advanced options hidden" mode).

[robmueller]

Originally Posted by hadaso

It would be good if the "personalities" screen would open in the personality already selected in the drop-down in the "create folder" (or "edit properties") form. And also if accessed from the "create folder" form it means it was in "advanced option shown" mode so upon return it should be in that mode (currently returning from "personalities" to "folders: has "folders" in "advanced options hidden" mode).

Unfortunately these are a bit tricky. I could remember the state of the advanced mode in a cookie...

Rob

[zhak]

Originally Posted by robmueller

zhak: Are you still having problems with the popup showing the wrong information? I can't reproduce that problem.

Yes. It happens on both my enhanced and guest accounts, so it's not account specific. I tested some more and found this:

Preexisting folders show the incorrect preview property, shows unread when actually none, and shows all when actually unread. Creating a new folder shows the correct property initially. However, I created 20 folders (numbered 1-20) in order to answer your second question, and then went back and renamed 1 to 01, etc. After renaming the folder, the preview property was incorrect.

Originally Posted by robmueller

Also when you say the warning message wasn't detailed enough, which warning message? Did you notice that if you have selected folders that aren't visible on the current page, it actually gives you TWO warning message?

Well, initially, I did not actually want to delete the folders, and since there was no reason to assume there would be a second warning, I stopped at the "Are you sure you want to PERMANENTLY delete the selected folders and all contained messages?" warning. It did not say "your 11 selected folders". After more testing on newly created empty folders, I got the second "There are folders selected that are not visible on the current page..." warning. So all is well here.

Besides the incorrect properties issue, I still have a usability issue. On the old page, we could see all the properties in one glance and instantly go to the folder/properties we wanted to change.

Let's say you just created a new personality and want to change all folders that used an older personality to the new one. Now you need to scan down the edit column to find wherever the old personality was used, then go over to the left column to select that folder, then go back to the edit column to continue scanning. Because we can now change them all at once, doing this does not take as long as the old page loads for individual folder changes, so it's an improvement, but it could still be faster.

I'd ask if you haven't looked at my screenshot edits above, please do, and just consider not using a popup to show the properties. My thinking goes along with Chipper's in that renaming does not occur as often as property changes.

[Added] For that matter, if you keep the rename column, why do we even need a 'folder' column?

Thanks.

-Jim