|
FastMail Forum All posts relating to FastMail.FM should go here: suggestions, comments, requests for help, complaints, technical issues etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
4 Mar 2015, 02:50 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
|
Let's liberate the webmail JavaScript
Fastmail used to be listed at [1] but its webmail is non-free anymore (I expect it to be removed, if not already). Do we want to suggest Fastmail people to follow the process at [2] to release their JavaScipt? This way users of the librejs browser extension [3] would be able to log in and read their mail in the web browser. Such users would also be able to read, study, modify, and re-distribute the programs running on their computer -- JavaScript being one of such programs. Currently users of the LibreJS extension only see a blank screen upon logging in...
Please join me in a move to regain control over our computing that happens while using webmail. 1 https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems 2 http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/...avascript.html 3 http://www.gnu.org/software/librejs |
4 Mar 2015, 05:12 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
|
|
5 Mar 2015, 01:29 AM | #3 | ||
Cornerstone of the Community
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rupert, WV
Posts: 876
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
5 Mar 2015, 06:13 AM | #4 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
|
I don't understand your comment. Whether Fastmail is gratis (i.e. free of charge) or not is irrelevant to this discussion.
Quote:
|
|
5 Mar 2015, 08:05 AM | #5 | |
The "e" in e-mail
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mostly in Thailand
Posts: 3,084
|
Wrt http://overturejs.com/
Quote:
Like most complex services, Fastmail has a lot of code that is only usable in the context of their own setup. To release such code would simply be pointless, unless it included every line of their server code, database code, and the detailed documentation that would allow it all to be understandable. |
|
5 Mar 2015, 01:03 PM | #6 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
|
Quote:
|
|
5 Mar 2015, 11:13 PM | #7 |
The "e" in e-mail
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: a virtually impossible but finitely improbable position
Posts: 2,320
|
And what were you going to do with Fastmail's javascript? Use it to run your own webmail server?
|
6 Mar 2015, 09:07 AM | #8 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
|
Quote:
However, this JavaScript is users' own computing, performed client-side on their own computers; users should be able to modify it as they please, and distribute modified versions, like they can do with any other free program they run on their computers. (It is not a common feature of web browsers to let users run a modified version of JavaScript before the original version from the website starts to run, -- but, partly with the help of Greasemonkey, it is possible.) To make such activity legal, it is necessary to release the JavaScript under a free license. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html is another essay on the topic; I should have linked it in my original message to avoid confusion. (Some of this thread looks rather much like a wreck, which I blame on my inability to communicate clearly, -- hopefully it will balance off after I answer some of the questions raised.) |
|
6 Mar 2015, 02:33 PM | #9 | |
The "e" in e-mail
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mostly in Thailand
Posts: 3,084
|
Quote:
We all have a shared interest in having applications built, as far as possible, using open standards with transparent implementations. Additionally using licenses that encourage these implementations to be cooperatively developed and shared, promotes lower cost and higher reliability. Stallman takes these practical arguments, and extends them into the status of a religion. I am suspicious of dogma that seeks to increase the costs of service providers to provide benefits that amount to hand waving and buzz words. I do not feel that my "freedoms are being infringed" because FM has not gone to the expense of documenting and releasing all the JavaScript specific to their (quite complex) client/server interface. In fact, I am very relieved that no one is being encouraged to develop Greasemonkey scripts that attempt to modify the data passed back and forth between client and server. If someone has a specific itch they want to scratch that affects only the aesthetics of the login screen, this is not that difficult, and no one will stop him. If he wants to change the interface between the client and the server, someone may try to stop him, especially if he finds a bug in the validation checks and crashes part of FM's infrastructure. If you are determined to run nothing on your computer that has not been anointed by RMS, the old FM classic interface can run successfully without JavaScript enabled. |
|
6 Mar 2015, 03:26 PM | #10 |
Master of the @
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,007
Representative of:
Fastmail.fm |
tl;dr we're not going to release the frontend source code at this time.
We're big believers in open data and open standards, which is why we invest so much in our IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV, etc support and try to get new things like JMAP out there. With open source though, we're far more pragmatic - we don't have any philosophical position on it. We really only release the source code for something if its personally interesting (eg a standalone component like hopscotch), or if it meets some business objective (all our involvement with Cyrus). I'll use the Android/iOS app as an example. Some people have asked for it to be open-sourced. My response was that I'd only do it if someone genuinely wanted to build something with it. The code itself isn't interesting or useful for its own sake, but might be interesting if you wanted to add a major feature or port it to another platform. Releasing the code isn't just a code drop - I need to sanitise it a little bit, provide some build instructions and so on. That takes time away from other more important projects. So its only worth doing if its likely to result in a net improvement for both us and our customers. It isn't clear that the time and effort required to make the frontend source code available (and LibreJS compatible) is going to result in any significant gain. Maybe we'd get a couple of extra users out of it, but I doubt it would be enough to justify the time and effort spent to get the code out there and support it properly. I'd make the argument that if you already trust us to store and manage your email then trusting that the code we ship is doing the right thing is not really a big deal. If you don't trust us, then you probably don't want us managing your email either. If you're a Stallman devotee, then this explanation is unlikely to satisfy you. I'm not sure there's much I can do about that. The first link you posted does link to some other mail providers that do claim to run 100% free software. Perhaps one of those would be a better choice for you over FastMail. |
Thread Tools | |
|
|