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Old 25 Sep 2003, 02:19 AM   #1
ostkamp
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Question Maximum attachment size

Hello,

I am considering to sign up for a member or full account. However, I am a bit concerned about the policy not to accept emails with size > 10 MB.

Why is this done, when I have paid for mailbox space with 16, 50 or even more megabyte?

It may happen occasionally that I get send software upgrades via email which can get > 10 MB. Is there any way to bypass this restriction? I have not found any option in your pricing plans.

Secondly your terms of service state that one can be removed from service at any time without any reason. Why is that?

I can understand if one is removed because the service is terminated for all members or if violating the rules, but this sounds very strange. Can I at least expect to get back the additional money already paid for maybe the next x month if that happens?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Guido
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 03:18 AM   #2
FMRocks
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Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by ostkamp
Hello,

I am considering to sign up for a member or full account. However, I am a bit concerned about the policy not to accept emails with size > 10 MB.

Why is this done, when I have paid for mailbox space with 16, 50 or even more megabyte?
Hi, and welcome to the Forum and to Fastmail. The attachment size limitation is there because of Mailbox space limitation, as well as bandwidth costs. Everytime someone sends you an email it acquires bandwidth. If it is possible, large files should be uploaded to a server and then a link can be sent to the recepient(s). It is much more space and bandwidth efficient. Personally speaking, I have never received an email that exceeds 10 mb. Most email providers don't even offer 10 mb for free. 10mb is really quite large, even for software updates.

Last edited by FMRocks : 6 Apr 2004 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 03:57 AM   #3
Sherry
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Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by ostkamp
Secondly your terms of service state that one can be removed from service at any time without any reason. Why is that?
My guess is, if they needed to close an account because of abuse, the way it is worded now means it can be done immediately. If the wording said they can only be closed in the case of abuse, that may require getting a lawyer and "proving" abuse. I'm sure they could prove it but it could be costly for FM to have to do that. If it's closed for abuse, I'm sure no refund would be offered.
This is just a guess on my part. I can't speak for FM's TOS.

Sherry
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 05:34 AM   #4
ostkamp
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Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by FMRocks
The attachment size limitation is there because of Mailbox space limitation, as well as bandwidth costs. Everytime someone sends you an email it acquires bandwidth. If it is possible, large files should be uploaded to a server and then a link can be sent to the recepient(s). It is much more space and bandwidth efficient. Personally speaking, I have received an email that exceeds 10 mb. Most email providers don't even offer 10 mb for free. 10mb is really quite large, even for software updates.
Well, it takes the same resources whether receive one email with 11 MB or 11 emails with 1 MB size, doesn't it? So, if I payed for a 50 MB account, receiving one 11 MB mail should be possible.

I hope someone of the staff of FM will comment on this here too.

You said you received > 10 MB. Does that mean that the statement in the FAQ is wrong?

Regards,

Guido
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 05:40 AM   #5
ostkamp
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Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry
My guess is, if they needed to close an account because of abuse, the way it is worded now means it can be done immediately. If the wording said they can only be closed in the case of abuse, that may require getting a lawyer and "proving" abuse. I'm sure they could prove it but it could be costly for FM to have to do that. If it's closed for abuse, I'm sure no refund would be offered.
This is just a guess on my part. I can't speak for FM's TOS.

Sherry
Thanks. I think if I enter into a contract, it can't be that I have to fulfill the contract but the other side has the right to get out without any commitment. Maybe some of the staff can explain this?

Regards,

Guido
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 06:58 AM   #6
mcowger
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Re: Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by ostkamp
Well, it takes the same resources whether receive one email with 11 MB or 11 emails with 1 MB size, doesn't it? So, if I payed for a 50 MB account, receiving one 11 MB mail should be possible.
The issue is that receving 1 HUGE email takes a lot of the resources of the server for a good minute or so. Depending in the server daemon, it can alsoo choke it. A few 1MB won't do that. Honestly though, how often do you receive an email of that size. Also remember, that the limit is really about 8.5 MB, because MIME encoding increases the size of an email about 33%.
[/b][/quote]

Quote:
I hope someone of the staff of FM will comment on this here too.
I think they will, but its all been answered before....you might try searching the forum.
Quote:
You said you received > 10 MB. Does that mean that the statement in the FAQ is wrong?
I think sherry made a typo .

Quote:
Regards,

Guido

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 07:05 AM   #7
Sherry
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by mcowger

I think sherry made a typo .

I did? Your probably right but I can't find it.

Sherry
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 12:38 PM   #8
FMRocks
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Re: Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by ostkamp
Well, it takes the same resources whether receive one email with 11 MB or 11 emails with 1 MB size, doesn't it?
Yes, but here's an analogy: If you run 2 gallons of water every second through a pipe, the pipe stays intact. You can run it for 100 seconds and get 200 gallons of water. Now, if you tried to run that entire 200 gallon in the first second, the pipe would almost inevitably break. There is this virtual bandwidth pipe as well, so FM has to watch out how much data it lets through at the same instant, so the pipe doesn't break.
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 02:51 PM   #9
Jeremy Howard
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Sherry's guess was pretty much right - our legal advice was that this clause is important to avoid problems in the case of users that caused trouble that we did not think of specifically when writing the contract, and to avoid having to wait for legal adjudication before we can terminate an abusive customer.

For these reasons, this clause protects users from service degradation due to other abusive users, and protects our business from legal problems. It does however require some trust on your part that we don't be unreasonable - I hope that our track record to date helps here. This forum is run by an indepdendent 3rd party and we can't modify the contents, so if we were doing nasty things you would be able to read about them here...
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 03:11 PM   #10
sflorack
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In the end, I think it's important to note that there are certainly better, more realiable alternatives to sending large email attachments. Other services (ie HTTP/FTP hosting) were designed for this purpose, and have their own niche in online correspondence.
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 04:26 PM   #11
ostkamp
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Quote:
Originally posted by sflorack
In the end, I think it's important to note that there are certainly better, more realiable alternatives to sending large email attachments. Other services (ie HTTP/FTP hosting) were designed for this purpose, and have their own niche in online correspondence.
That's clear to me, I am on a modem line and I would never attempt to send out binaries that large on my own.

However, I've reported a bug for some software and the other side has agreed to "send" me a newer version for free. I still hope they will send only a link and a registration key, but if not, the thing will have a binary size of 12 MB and I will be in trouble.

My current ISP supports only 5 MB, another popular freemailer in my country provides 20 MB - at least they allow me to send that large attachments. However, at the moment I am bombarded with SWEN viruses which fill the entire box and I thought it would be a good idea to open an account with fastmail, because of the virus and spam protection.

But here the 10 MB restriction hits me ...

I'll think about it.

Regards,

Guido
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 04:32 PM   #12
ostkamp
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by FMRocks
Yes, but here's an analogy: If you run 2 gallons of water every second through a pipe, the pipe stays intact. You can run it for 100 seconds and get 200 gallons of water. Now, if you tried to run that entire 200 gallon in the first second, the pipe would almost inevitably break. There is this virtual bandwidth pipe as well, so FM has to watch out how much data it lets through at the same instant, so the pipe doesn't break.
That analogy doesn't work here. It simply takes longer to upload/downloads larger mails, as the capacity of the connection stays the same. fastmail will most definitely be able to handle a large number of connections at the same time, so I see no difference in transfer costs.

I wouldn't mind if the smaller accounts were restricted to 10 MB, or if I at least could get more by optional paying some more money.

Regards,

Guido
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 05:25 PM   #13
Jeremy Howard
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Maximum attachment size

Quote:
Originally posted by ostkamp
I wouldn't mind if the smaller accounts were restricted to 10 MB, or if I at least could get more by optional paying some more money.
That would be nice. Unfortunately, the policy is applied before the server knows the recipient, so it can't be done on a service-level basis. Our sofware platform doesn't support this option.
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 07:17 PM   #14
davidbstanley
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I remember the time when getting attachments of a few hundred kB was a real battle. That time has long gone fortunately. I think it is clear that people are going to want to send increasingly large files by email. A few years ago 5MB was a reasonable limit. 5MB would not be acceptable to most now and I think the time has come to review the 10MB limit. Maybe 20MB would be better. I think there should be little doubt that it will have to be raised at some point. FM have had a few users complaining in these forums about the limit, I am sure that more will in the future.

Dave
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Old 25 Sep 2003, 10:20 PM   #15
leisuresuitlary
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Perhaps when the online storage comes around any atatchments of above 10mb will be deposited in the online storage file (if there is enough room). After all if users can upload files that big for download by other then it suggests that there is no technical barrier to using that space as a safety net. Of course due to the quotas that will be used this would only be of value to holders of enhanced accounts.

larry
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