Classic Interface Survival Guide - Page 2

TheRincewind · 30 Oct 2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanborg

I'm sorry if we have not been clear enough in our communication. The new interface has been in public beta for 10 months but there is a limit to how well we interpret the feedback and the severity of some changes will only become fully apparent on launch day.
...

"clear enough in our communication" - please show us the communication you think you gave us?

"launch day" - where oh where did you tell anyone outside of Opera that today was launch day, I think you'll find the rants would have been massively reduced to I don't like this bit or where is that instead of WTF have you down to my paid email you bleeping bleep

"public beta for 10 months" - so should we all be expected from now on to go check the beta site once a month just to get used to it in case you decide to promote it to live without telling us?

disneylogic · 30 Oct 2012, 09:49 PM

While I don't know why people need to be bitter about things, I agree that the Classic interface as supplied is not the same as the old Classic interface, ditto Modern, or Minimal interface. These colors are too bright.

It is a bit presumptuous for FM to expect people to restore colors and things by hacking their own stylesheets anew. They should at least provide custom stylesheets that will reproduce the look of the old interface as close as possible.

brong · 30 Oct 2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneylogic

While I don't know why people need to be bitter about things, I agree that the Classic interface as supplied is not the same as the old Classic interface, ditto Modern, or Minimal interface. These colors are too bright.

It is a bit presumptuous for FM to expect people to restore colors and things by hacking their own stylesheets anew. They should at least provide custom stylesheets that will reproduce the look of the old interface as close as possible.

Made a specific bug for this as well. My argument was always "SAME COLOURS, PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS $..." for the "classic" theme. If that's not the case, we should fix it.

FYI - I posted this as P1 bug with a small rant attached.

pbevila · 30 Oct 2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brong

Made a specific bug for this as well. My argument was always "SAME COLOURS, PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS $..." for the "classic" theme. If that's not the case, we should fix it.

FYI - I posted this as P1 bug with a small rant attached.

As the Brit gent said, you rock!

BritTim · 30 Oct 2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brong

Made a specific bug for this as well. My argument was always "SAME COLOURS, PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS $..." for the "classic" theme. If that's not the case, we should fix it.

FYI - I posted this as P1 bug with a small rant attached.

Colors and fonts, please ... some people are absolutely anal about this, and often for good reasons.

tobiasdr · 31 Oct 2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanborg

I have raised the issue about needing to click "classic" on every login internally. In the meantime, please bookmark https://classic.fastmail.fm for quick access.

Doesn't work. Still the new UI. I've also found that the new interface frequently hangs when switching folders.

brong · 31 Oct 2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobiasdr

Doesn't work. Still the new UI. I've also found that the new interface frequently hangs when switching folders.

Works if you log in fresh - doesn't work if you have an existing login and use it - because the interface choice is stored in the session.

tobiasdr · 31 Oct 2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brong

Works if you log in fresh - doesn't work if you have an existing login and use it - because the interface choice is stored in the session.

I now figured that it actually did work - but I didn't realize it since it's not actually the old interface but the appearance has changed to almost the same as the new interface. Very confusing

CellarDoor · 31 Oct 2012, 02:24 AM

Let me add my voice to the crowd of other dissatisfied long-time FM users. I've been a paying member since 2004 and have been progressively more disappointed. I changed over from old.fastmail.fm when asked (February 2011), spent several hours (and posts on here) figuring out how to use stylesheets to make the interface palatable, and that was that.

Now my stylesheet doesn't work anymore.

Current issues:

Forced Classic interface (from classic.fastmail.fm):
My chosen stylesheet no longer works properly ("Clean and Compact"), so I had to disable it. I have RSI in both wrists and I need as much information on the screen as possible so that I don't have to scroll down as much. Clean and Compact got rid of all the excess white space in all current iterations of the interface and allowed me to see the folders I needed and a sufficient number of e-mails. Now it doesn't work. I'm going to try Stylish, as suggested by others on this forum, but I don't have high hopes for that.

New interface:
Search of Drafts folder broken (searched "drafts:xxyy" in mailsearch window and got NOTHING, even though xxyy is subject of FIRST msg in Drafts mailbox). Several other searches for subject/body terms in Drafts mailbox got 0 results.
"Classic" stylesheet loads a compose page that looks like Gmail, i.e. original message is above compose window, so if you scroll up to send (possible in old interface), you have to scroll much, much longer

I'm sure that there are no plans to create new stylesheets for Classic, but please, please keep us scroll/click-averse in mind when working on stylesheets for the new interface. Keyboard shortcuts are great, but they're not enough.

And hey, if you're out there, Clean and Compact stylesheet creator, you have one fan who would love an updated version.

Thanks.

brong · 31 Oct 2012, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CellarDoor

Search of Drafts folder broken (searched "drafts:xxyy" in mailsearch window and got NOTHING, even though xxyy is subject of FIRST msg in Drafts mailbox). Several other searches for subject/body terms in Drafts mailbox got 0 results.

has "drafts:xxyy" ever worked?? I can't see how it would have.

I just selected the Drafts folder and searched for something in one of my draft messages' subjects, and it came up just fine.

Bron.

Tappahannock · 31 Oct 2012, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneylogic

They should at least provide custom stylesheets that will reproduce the look of the old interface as close as possible.

I'm not sure that is even the "least" in "at the least."

There should be an extremely prominent option, not buried on secondary pages, to restore a user's previous configuration including previous default and custom stylesheets. The entire "upgrade" should have been opt-in, not opt-out. (The trouble is, there may have been premonition that too few would have opted in.)

Not one of the users depending on me (and eating up practically my entire day so far) has been happy to open the door and find the entire house remodeled in a radically different style with no prior warning. Not a one.

What I see most of all is a typical engineering personality's inability to imagine one's way into the mind of a regular user and foresee this debacle. There was apparently no recognition at all of the real-world context in which these changes would be experienced. That's what managers in any business are supposed to provide.

What if you went out to your car one morning and all the pedals and buttons had been reorganized -- and oh, by the way, we moved the steering wheel to the other side. And you weren't a great driver in the first place. And your wife was having a baby and you were in a rush to get to the hospital. Figuratively speaking of course, that's the situation I'm responding to for multiple users today. Remotely, to boot. And it isn't even my own fault.

Where was the adult supervision?

Tappahannock · 31 Oct 2012, 03:42 AM

I suspect that from a brand perspective, the only survivable path forward from here is an overnight reversion and a later, better-planned, better-introduced, less totalitarian reintroduction of the upgrade.

(Even that solution doesn't necessarily fix the problem of people who have lost hundreds of emails because of the same-name deletion bug -- some of whom may not yet be aware of their data loss.)

Even if the current user base is no longer the intended future user base, if this drags out to several days it will become so epic and legendary as to ruin the brand for future customers.

cherryharley · 31 Oct 2012, 03:50 AM

love the car comments! and am STILL waiting for the restore of my deleted emails to finish...

BritTim · 31 Oct 2012, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tappahannock

I suspect that from a brand perspective, the only survivable path forward from here is an overnight reversion and a later, better-planned, better-introduced, less totalitarian reintroduction of the upgrade.

I am pretty sure this is impossible. Preparation would take days (reversion scripts would need to be written). Also, what is "overnight". FM is used globally, and any downtime will effect some users.

No, the best way is

Ensure the choice of interfaces is clear when originally connecting (partially addressed now)
Display a clear help page that tells users critical considerations (such as the conversation delete issue) they need to know on entry to the new interface. (Users should be able to click "do not show this again.)
A crash effort to return the aesthetics of the "classic" interface to the way it was 24 hours ago.

I believe this is achievable fairly quickly, though (in the case of number 3) not entirely without risk.

johanborg · 31 Oct 2012, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritTim

I am pretty sure this is impossible. Preparation would take days (reversion scripts would need to be written). Also, what is "overnight". FM is used globally, and any downtime will effect some users.

No, the best way is

Ensure the choice of interfaces is clear when originally connecting (partially addressed now)
Display a clear help page that tells users critical considerations (such as the conversation delete issue) they need to know on entry to the new interface. (Users should be able to click "do not show this again.)
A crash effort to return the aesthetics of the "classic" interface to the way it was 24 hours ago.

I believe this is achievable fairly quickly, though (in the case of number 3) not entirely without risk.

We did a first step for 1 and have started on a workaround for 2. 3 will be investigated later today/tomorrow depending on your time zone..

30 Oct 2012, 09:49 PM	#17
disneylogic Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westwood, MA Posts: 348	The classic interface is not While I don't know why people need to be bitter about things, I agree that the Classic interface as supplied is not the same as the old Classic interface, ditto Modern, or Minimal interface. These colors are too bright. It is a bit presumptuous for FM to expect people to restore colors and things by hacking their own stylesheets anew. They should at least provide custom stylesheets that will reproduce the look of the old interface as close as possible.

31 Oct 2012, 02:24 AM	#24
CellarDoor Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 9	Issues so far Let me add my voice to the crowd of other dissatisfied long-time FM users. I've been a paying member since 2004 and have been progressively more disappointed. I changed over from old.fastmail.fm when asked (February 2011), spent several hours (and posts on here) figuring out how to use stylesheets to make the interface palatable, and that was that. Now my stylesheet doesn't work anymore. Current issues: Forced Classic interface (from classic.fastmail.fm): My chosen stylesheet no longer works properly ("Clean and Compact"), so I had to disable it. I have RSI in both wrists and I need as much information on the screen as possible so that I don't have to scroll down as much. Clean and Compact got rid of all the excess white space in all current iterations of the interface and allowed me to see the folders I needed and a sufficient number of e-mails. Now it doesn't work. I'm going to try Stylish, as suggested by others on this forum, but I don't have high hopes for that. New interface: Search of Drafts folder broken (searched "drafts:xxyy" in mailsearch window and got NOTHING, even though xxyy is subject of FIRST msg in Drafts mailbox). Several other searches for subject/body terms in Drafts mailbox got 0 results. "Classic" stylesheet loads a compose page that looks like Gmail, i.e. original message is above compose window, so if you scroll up to send (possible in old interface), you have to scroll much, much longer I'm sure that there are no plans to create new stylesheets for Classic, but please, please keep us scroll/click-averse in mind when working on stylesheets for the new interface. Keyboard shortcuts are great, but they're not enough. And hey, if you're out there, Clean and Compact stylesheet creator, you have one fan who would love an updated version. Thanks.

31 Oct 2012, 03:42 AM	#27
Tappahannock Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 21	I suspect that from a brand perspective, the only survivable path forward from here is an overnight reversion and a later, better-planned, better-introduced, less totalitarian reintroduction of the upgrade. (Even that solution doesn't necessarily fix the problem of people who have lost hundreds of emails because of the same-name deletion bug -- some of whom may not yet be aware of their data loss.) Even if the current user base is no longer the intended future user base, if this drags out to several days it will become so epic and legendary as to ruin the brand for future customers.

31 Oct 2012, 03:50 AM	#28
cherryharley Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 27	love the car comments! and am STILL waiting for the restore of my deleted emails to finish...