Email Hosting and Filters

mail2me · 26 Apr 2006, 05:08 AM

This is the issue I have with Email Hosting with Runbox:

I create two aliases as follows:
<name1@domain.com>
<name2@domain.com>

I want <name1@domain.com> to forward to <username@runbox.com> - No problem with that

I want <name2@domaim.com> to forward to <another@email.address.com> - I can't do this directly. So I forward to <username@runbox.com> and set up a filter as "If Header contains <name2@domaim.com> then forward to <another@email.address.com>"

The problem with the later is that if I get an email from <name2@domain.com> addressed to <name1@domain.com> then it would be forwarded to <name2@domain.com> without being delivered to me.

Another scenario. Somebody sends an email to both <myname1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com>. <name1@domain.com> never gets the email because both gets delivered to <name2@domain.com>.

Any suggestions to overcome the two issues raised above.

I can overcome both the above issues by hosting my email directly with the web host, but I would prefer to host with Runbox.

carverrn · 26 Apr 2006, 08:06 AM

If you look at the headers carefully you will see that your alias names do appear in one of the "Received:" header lines.

If you test the header for a pattern similar to this:

for name2@domain.com;

you should be able to filter all messages to name2@domain.com regardless of where the address was located for sending (To, CC or BCC).

Regards,
Rich

mail2me · 26 Apr 2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carverrn
If you look at the headers carefully you will see that your alias names do appear in one of the "Received:" header lines.

If you test the header for a pattern similar to this:

for name2@domain.com;

you should be able to filter all messages to name2@domain.com regardless of where the address was located for sending (To, CC or BCC).

Regards,
Rich

You may have a point here. Let me test it out and get back.

mail2me · 26 Apr 2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mail2me
You may have a point here. Let me test it out and get back.

Okay, this is a good attempt to get around the issue raised, but this was my finding. It works fine when tested with a Gmail account because the header has the words "for " in front of the delivered address. Unfortunately, it didn't work with a message sent from a FastMail account.

Messages received form FastMail doesn't have a "for " in front of the delivered email address in the header. If you analyze the header, you will see a "for " but it is in front of the destination email (in this case <username@runbox.com>). It should be in front of the email address the message was sent to (in this case <name1@domain.com> or <name2@domain.com>) for the filter to work correctly.

Moreover, under this method, only one message was delivered since both end up in the same account. This is because both aliases are pointing to one <username@runbox.com>. When the email is hosted directly with the web host this problem doesn't occur because both aliases are pointing to two different email addresses.

All these issues can be easily resolved if Runbox allows to point an alias created on a hosted domain to any email address just like the web host cpanel does.

carverrn · 26 Apr 2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mail2me
...Unfortunately, it didn't work with a message sent from a FastMail account.

Messages received form FastMail doesn't have a "for " in front of the delivered email address in the header. If you analyze the header, you will see a "for " but it is in front of the destination email (in this case <username@runbox.com>). It should be in front of the email address the message was sent to (in this case <name1@domain.com> or <name2@domain.com>) for the filter to work correctly.

I tested with FastMail and I see the header you're talking about but I also see a header I was talking about.

My hosted domain is mydomain.com. It is hosted with my myusername Runbox account. I created an alias name1 for mydomain.com. Below is the header of the message I received at that alias address when I sent it from my FastMail account:

Code:

From myusername@fastmail.fm Wed Apr 26 15:29:06 2006
Return-path: <myusername@fastmail.fm>
Received: from [10.9.9.161] (helo=patch.runbox.com)
	by fenris.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYk4o-0003cS-T8
	for myusername%mydomain.com@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:29:06 +0200
Received: from exim by patch.runbox.com with spamfilter  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYk4m-0006Qs-Ko
	for myusername%mydomain.com@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:29:06 +0200
Received: from [66.111.4.25] (helo=out1.smtp.messagingengine.com)
	by patch.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYk4l-0006Pt-6u
	for name1@mydomain.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:29:04 +0200
Received: from frontend2.internal (frontend2.internal [10.202.2.151])
	by frontend1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDB2D4CE4A
	for <name1@mydomain.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from web1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.210])
  by frontend2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:28:16 -0400
Received: by web1.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99)
	id A77E9B5DE; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:28:16 -0400 (EDT)

As you can see it does contain the header I was talking about (in green) along with the header you were talking about (in red).

The header I'm talking about (in green) was added by the Runbox mail server (patch.runbox.com in this example).

The header you're talking about (in red) was added by the FastMail mail server (frontend1.messagingengine.com in this example).

Doesn't yours look similiar to this? If not, what does it look like?

Regards,
Rich

carverrn · 26 Apr 2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mail2me
Moreover, under this method, only one message was delivered since both end up in the same account. This is because both aliases are pointing to one <username@runbox.com>. When the email is hosted directly with the web host this problem doesn't occur because both aliases are pointing to two different email addresses.

All these issues can be easily resolved if Runbox allows to point an alias created on a hosted domain to any email address just like the web host cpanel does.

Runbox will deliver EVERY message ... it doesn't filter out duplicates like Gmail is reported to do.

If you email a message to name1@yourdomain.com and name2@yourdomain.com and they both go to the same Runbox account you will get both copies of the message.

I use Runbox filters to forward messages sent to specific usernames under my own domain to the real mailboxes for those user names. Some of these mailboxes are Yahoo, some are Gmail and some are other. And they all are forwarded just fine using my Runbox filters.

Regards,
Rich

mail2me · 27 Apr 2006, 02:20 AM

This is the header for a message sent from FastMail to Runbox:

From username@rushpost.com Wed Apr 26 18:24:41 2006
Return-path: <username@rushpost.com>
Received: from [10.9.9.162] (helo=pepper.runbox.com)
by fenris.runbox.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
id 1FYmWr-0007jV-MO
for username@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:06:13 +0200
Received: from exim by pepper.runbox.com with spamfilter (Exim 4.50)
id 1FYmJW-0002nT-Es
for username@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:52:34 +0200
Received: from [66.111.4.25] (helo=out1.smtp.messagingengine.com)
by pepper.runbox.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
id 1FYmJW-0002nK-5Y; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:52:26 +0200
Received: from frontend2.internal (frontend2.internal [10.202.2.151])
by frontend1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F3BD4CD46;
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:52:24 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from web1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.210])
by frontend2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:51:39 -0400
Received: by web1.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99)
id 8AA4FB81; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT)

mail2me · 27 Apr 2006, 02:38 AM

The words in red have been changed. The username for both my rushpost (FastMail account) and runbox happen to be the same.

The above message was sent from username@rushpost.com to <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com> (both were entered in the "To" line of the message.

As you can see from above both <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com> are never mentioned in the header even though the message was addressed to both. What is stated is the forward email address of the two aliases of the email host domain, i.e. <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com>.

The outcome:
1) I only received one copy of the message to username@runbox.com.

2) Obviously my filter for "if Header contains 'for name2@domain.com;'" can't work because it is not appearing anywhere in the header. I checked the forward email account of that filter anyway just to make sure that the second copy of the message wasn't there anyway.

My header for a message sent from FastMail is different to yours. If it was the same then the above raised issues won't occur.

The only difference I can see is that my FastMail domain is rushpost.com instead of fastmail.fm.

carverrn · 27 Apr 2006, 04:31 AM

The difference was that I was testing by sending to one email address at a time. When I tested with multiple addresses in the "To" field I get the same style headers you get. So there goes that idea.

And you're right ... you do only receive one of the messages. When I get multiple emails it's from my domains that are not hosted with Runbox. Sorry about that mistake.

So to do what you want, use your domain to host non-Runbox based email addresses, you really can't host your domain with Runbox.

You can still host the domain name somewhere else, like your domain registrar. Forward all email for your domain to your Runbox account. Then use Runbox filters for forward emails to non-Runbox accounts.

Regards,
Rich

mail2me · 27 Apr 2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carverrn

You can still host the domain name somewhere else, like your domain registrar. Forward all email for your domain to your Runbox account. Then use Runbox filters for forward emails to non-Runbox accounts.

Regards,
Rich

I also realized that the headers are as you get when tested with one email address at a time. Out of the two issues I raised in the initial post, your solution does solve one issue but not the second scenario. The output is different but not the desired output.

As to hosting directly with the domain registrar, I have an issue there too. My registrar is GoDaddy. If you create an email address called "<name2@domain.com>" and set that to forward to "<another@email.address.com>" then what appears in the "To" line of the received email is ""<another@email.address.com>" instead of ""<name2@domain.com>". This doesn't occur with email hosting with Runbox or through the web host cPanel.

The best solution for me is to host with the web host cPanel.

carverrn · 27 Apr 2006, 12:44 PM

I also use GoDaddy as one of my domain registars and I don't see what you described.

I created two email address (name1 and name2) for one of my domains using GoDaddy's mail forwarding. I forwarded both of them to my Runbox account. I sent one test message to both addresses. I received two copies of the message, one for name1@MYDOMAIN.COM and one for name2@MYDOMAIN.COM. Both messages had the original "To:" address ... nothing changed.

Message for name1@MYDOMAIN.COM:

Code:

From SRS0=AF/l=6R=yahoo.com=carverrn@bounce.secureserver.net Thu Apr 27 04:59:53 2006
Return-path: <SRS0=AF/l=6R=yahoo.com=myusername@bounce.secureserver.net>
Received: from [10.9.9.162] (helo=pepper.runbox.com)
	by garm.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjR-0000kS-Mc
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:53 +0200
Received: from exim by pepper.runbox.com with spamfilter  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjK-0007tO-Sp
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:53 +0200
Received: from [64.202.189.191] (helo=smtp09-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net)
	by pepper.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjK-0007sE-CO
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:46 +0200
Received: (qmail 3530 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Delivered-To: name1@MYDOMAIN.COM
Received: (qmail 3524 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO pre-smtp01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net) ([64.202.166.24])
          (envelope-sender <myusername@yahoo.com>)
          by smtp09-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <name1@MYDOMAIN.COM>; 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: (qmail 2993 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: from web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.200.150])
          (envelope-sender <myusername@yahoo.com>)
          by pre-smtp01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <name1@MYDOMAIN.COM>; 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: (qmail 36204 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:44 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
  h=Message-ID:Received: Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;
  b=fnEtFK5i+H23So5bHTp+t3ey3EXgOzDKN/n52u64mHn91j9GwOHIKDfRhLM/xdtxK3a3OrrY/7/PARSs2JDU8G68XPk8tY9M8ete6M28ir6lk+AufO8loIGurGaXMMo1OoQaTegrWcB9EL6Iy03mcScveAjqauA7m1HSuhblg4U=  ;
Message-ID: <20060427025944.36202.qmail@web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Received: from [71.194.47.239] by web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:59:44 PDT
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: MyName <myusername@yahoo.com>
Subject: name1@MYDOMAIN.COM,name2@MYDOMAIN.COM
To: name1@MYDOMAIN.COM, name2@MYDOMAIN.COM

Message for name2@MYDOMAIN.COM:

Code:

From SRS0=AF/l=6R=yahoo.com=myusername@bounce.secureserver.net Thu Apr 27 04:59:53 2006
Return-path: <SRS0=AF/l=6R=yahoo.com=myusername@bounce.secureserver.net>
Received: from [10.9.9.161] (helo=patch.runbox.com)
	by garm.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjR-0000kP-Lh
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:53 +0200
Received: from exim by patch.runbox.com with spamfilter  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjL-0000MU-Ad
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:53 +0200
Received: from [64.202.189.24] (helo=smtp08-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net)
	by patch.runbox.com with esmtp  (Exim 4.50)
	id 1FYwjK-0000M0-BP
	for myusername@runbox.com; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:59:47 +0200
Received: (qmail 19828 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Delivered-To: name2@MYDOMAIN.COM
Received: (qmail 19826 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO pre-smtp12-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net) ([64.202.166.10])
          (envelope-sender <myusername@yahoo.com>)
          by smtp08-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <name2@MYDOMAIN.COM>; 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: (qmail 18817 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com) ([68.142.200.150])
          (envelope-sender <myusername@yahoo.com>)
          by pre-smtp12-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <name2@MYDOMAIN.COM>; 27 Apr 2006 02:59:45 -0000
Received: (qmail 36204 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 02:59:44 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
  h=Message-ID:Received: Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;
  b=fnEtFK5i+H23So5bHTp+t3ey3EXgOzDKN/n52u64mHn91j9GwOHIKDfRhLM/xdtxK3a3OrrY/7/PARSs2JDU8G68XPk8tY9M8ete6M28ir6lk+AufO8loIGurGaXMMo1OoQaTegrWcB9EL6Iy03mcScveAjqauA7m1HSuhblg4U=  ;
Message-ID: <20060427025944.36202.qmail@web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Received: from [71.194.47.239] by web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:59:44 PDT
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: MyName <myusername@yahoo.com>
Subject: name1@MYDOMAIN.COM,name2@MYDOMAIN.COM
To: name1@MYDOMAIN.COM, name2@MYDOMAIN.COM

Regards,
Rich

mail2me · 27 Apr 2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carverrn
I also use GoDaddy as one of my domain registars and I don't see what you described.

I created two email address (name1 and name2) for one of my domains using GoDaddy's mail forwarding. I forwarded both of them to my Runbox account. I sent one test message to both addresses. I received two copies of the message, one for name1@MYDOMAIN.COM and one for name2@MYDOMAIN.COM. Both messages had the original "To:" address ... nothing changed.

So it seems now when I tested it again. So hosting directly with the registrar, and then forwarding email maybe the best option. Thanks.

Hosting through the web host cPanel is also a good option though because I didn't see any issues with that either.

carverrn · 27 Apr 2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mail2me
So it seems now when I tested it again. So hosting directly with the registrar, and then forwarding email maybe the best option. Thanks.

Hosting through the web host cPanel is also a good option though because I didn't see any issues with that either.

Good ... I'm glad we get the same results on GoDaddy

Yes, hosting services using cPanel make it easy to setup forwarding to other email addresses. I have several hosting accounts using cPanel. I really like the cPanel/Linux/Apache hosting packages.

If you're not aware, Runbox will soon be offering web hosting with cPanel (see Runbox Hosting - Email Hosting, Web Hosting). It is a separate service from the Runbox email (additional charge) but it's very simple the change the MX record from the cPanel interface so that your email goes to your Runbox account.

Regards,
Rich

carverrn · 27 Apr 2006, 10:40 PM

Also see http://runbox.com/twiki/bin/view/RunboxInfo/WebHosting for more information.

Rich

mail2me · 27 Apr 2006, 11:45 PM

Hi Rich,

Yes, I know, I'm a tester for Runbox Web Hosting. I was hoping that Runbox email hosting will have more benefits over hosting email through the Web Host cPanel, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Runbox Web Hosting is more expensive than Runbox Email, so I guess it does make business sense for email hosting through Web Hosting cPanel to have better functionality.

26 Apr 2006, 05:08 AM	#1
mail2me Master of the @ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 1,597	Email Hosting and Filters This is the issue I have with Email Hosting with Runbox: I create two aliases as follows: <name1@domain.com> <name2@domain.com> I want <name1@domain.com> to forward to <username@runbox.com> - No problem with that I want <name2@domaim.com> to forward to <another@email.address.com> - I can't do this directly. So I forward to <username@runbox.com> and set up a filter as "If Header contains <name2@domaim.com> then forward to <another@email.address.com>" The problem with the later is that if I get an email from <name2@domain.com> addressed to <name1@domain.com> then it would be forwarded to <name2@domain.com> without being delivered to me. Another scenario. Somebody sends an email to both <myname1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com>. <name1@domain.com> never gets the email because both gets delivered to <name2@domain.com>. Any suggestions to overcome the two issues raised above. I can overcome both the above issues by hosting my email directly with the web host, but I would prefer to host with Runbox.

26 Apr 2006, 08:06 AM	#2
carverrn Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,606 Representative of: Runbox.com	If you look at the headers carefully you will see that your alias names do appear in one of the "Received:" header lines. If you test the header for a pattern similar to this: for name2@domain.com; you should be able to filter all messages to name2@domain.com regardless of where the address was located for sending (To, CC or BCC). Regards, Rich

27 Apr 2006, 02:20 AM	#7
mail2me Master of the @ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 1,597	This is the header for a message sent from FastMail to Runbox: From username@rushpost.com Wed Apr 26 18:24:41 2006 Return-path: <username@rushpost.com> Received: from [10.9.9.162] (helo=pepper.runbox.com) by fenris.runbox.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FYmWr-0007jV-MO for username@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:06:13 +0200 Received: from exim by pepper.runbox.com with spamfilter (Exim 4.50) id 1FYmJW-0002nT-Es for username@runbox.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:52:34 +0200 Received: from [66.111.4.25] (helo=out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) by pepper.runbox.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FYmJW-0002nK-5Y; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:52:26 +0200 Received: from frontend2.internal (frontend2.internal [10.202.2.151]) by frontend1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F3BD4CD46; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.210]) by frontend2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:51:39 -0400 Received: by web1.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8AA4FB81; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT)

27 Apr 2006, 02:38 AM	#8
mail2me Master of the @ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 1,597	The words in red have been changed. The username for both my rushpost (FastMail account) and runbox happen to be the same. The above message was sent from username@rushpost.com to <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com> (both were entered in the "To" line of the message. As you can see from above both <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com> are never mentioned in the header even though the message was addressed to both. What is stated is the forward email address of the two aliases of the email host domain, i.e. <name1@domain.com> and <name2@domain.com>. The outcome: 1) I only received one copy of the message to username@runbox.com. 2) Obviously my filter for "if Header contains 'for name2@domain.com;'" can't work because it is not appearing anywhere in the header. I checked the forward email account of that filter anyway just to make sure that the second copy of the message wasn't there anyway. My header for a message sent from FastMail is different to yours. If it was the same then the above raised issues won't occur. The only difference I can see is that my FastMail domain is rushpost.com instead of fastmail.fm.

27 Apr 2006, 04:31 AM	#9
carverrn Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,606 Representative of: Runbox.com	The difference was that I was testing by sending to one email address at a time. When I tested with multiple addresses in the "To" field I get the same style headers you get. So there goes that idea. And you're right ... you do only receive one of the messages. When I get multiple emails it's from my domains that are not hosted with Runbox. Sorry about that mistake. So to do what you want, use your domain to host non-Runbox based email addresses, you really can't host your domain with Runbox. You can still host the domain name somewhere else, like your domain registrar. Forward all email for your domain to your Runbox account. Then use Runbox filters for forward emails to non-Runbox accounts. Regards, Rich

27 Apr 2006, 10:40 PM	#14
carverrn Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,606 Representative of: Runbox.com	Also see http://runbox.com/twiki/bin/view/RunboxInfo/WebHosting for more information. Rich

27 Apr 2006, 11:45 PM	#15
mail2me Master of the @ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 1,597	Hi Rich, Yes, I know, I'm a tester for Runbox Web Hosting. I was hoping that Runbox email hosting will have more benefits over hosting email through the Web Host cPanel, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Runbox Web Hosting is more expensive than Runbox Email, so I guess it does make business sense for email hosting through Web Hosting cPanel to have better functionality.