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Old 20 Sep 2021, 02:28 AM   #16
BritTim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Oh, the horror of seeing ads! What is the world coming to? Some of us have the ability to ignore advertising if we don't actively block it, but there is always a huge market for tinfoil hats.
People who think they are completely unaffected by what they see, read and hear, are deluding themselves. Organisations are willing to invest huge sums conducting influence campaigns, including advertising, because they are based on a solid scientific understanding of human psychology. Some of us are less influenced by such messaging. None of us are immune.
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Old 20 Sep 2021, 03:41 AM   #17
Bamb0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evfrson
I am just about to dump FastMail for GMail.
Privacy with email doesn't exist and I am just sick of paying companies like FastMail, ProtonMail etc for a so-called private service that doesn't exist.
I left fastmail because they dropped the original interface and the new one didnt work well on IE6... Very sad,they at one time said they wouldnt drop classic.....
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Old 20 Sep 2021, 03:48 AM   #18
TenFour
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Of course we are all influenced by advertising, just like we are influenced by reading the newspaper, going to church, or visiting a park. That doesn't mean that all advertising is a nefarious plot to get you to purchase something you don't want or need. Many nonprofit organizations that do good work use advertising. My local transit company advertises its schedule changes and its new routes. Local shops and restaurants advertise special offers and menus. Our state and local governments advertising things like vaccine clinics and govenment programs. If I need a new phone I'll read the ads, but in between phone purchases I won't. In fact, most of the time I see very few ads because I utilize ad blockers, and also I skim right past the ads I do see--I couldn't tell you for sure what they are advertising. However, don't we have some will and discernment? For example, I might read the phone ads to see what they say, but then I will follow up by viewing and reading many more review and test sites, I might visit a store and actually look at the phone and try it out. Once in awhile I focus on the ads just to see what I am being served and I am almost always perplexed why I am being served up ads that are of no interest or use to me. For example, I am of a certain age where judging from the advertising I should be taking many different pills, searching the Internet for adult diapers, and talking to a financial advisor about how they would like to take a percentage of my retirement money in exchange for me being secure in the knowledge they are ripping me off. Instead I am going for a motorcycle ride, which for some strange reason I see almost no advertising for even though I have owned one for many years, subscribe to various things, and do a lot of Internet reading about. I'm not convinced this all-seeing Internet ad machine is actually very effective at doing what many think it is doing.

Last edited by TenFour : 20 Sep 2021 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 20 Sep 2021, 04:23 AM   #19
FredOnline
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This thread is veering away from the OP's question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagnet View Post
What would I use if I left Fastmail?
Truth is I'm not familiar with other services like Runbox or ProtonMail.
What about you? Do you have already an alternative?
Why not have a back up system?

If something were to happen to Fastmail to cause you to leave, that is not the time to start searching for an alternative provider.

And you don't have to run all your e-mails through one provider.

Be prepared!
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Old 20 Sep 2021, 09:09 AM   #20
Grhm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Oh, the horror of seeing ads! What is the world coming to? Some of us have the ability to ignore advertising if we don't actively block it, but there is always a huge market for tinfoil hats.
You have given up your agency, your humanity, your hope. You are a dead soul.
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Old 20 Sep 2021, 03:55 PM   #21
Bamb0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredOnline
This thread is veering away from the OP's question:
Hmmm Fred... Well I wouldnt have left if they left classic up and wanted us to pay to use it... It was that good!!
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Old 21 Sep 2021, 07:52 AM   #22
Terry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Oh, the horror of seeing ads! What is the world coming to? Some of us have the ability to ignore advertising if we don't actively block it, but there is always a huge market for tinfoil hats.
Its not the horror of seeing the ads but how my info was mined to produce the ads that were applicable to me and no one else in my family.
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Old 21 Sep 2021, 08:15 AM   #23
Grhm
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That anyone could respond to that thoughtful, considered, eloquent post by China Lamb with trite talk about "tinfoil hats" just makes me... angry.
Ten Four is saying "Submit!, Submit!".
Any unbroken, sane person will respond "NEVER!"
We are not powerless, much as you would like us to be, Ten Four.
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 07:30 PM   #24
sflorack
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Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Oh, the horror of seeing ads! What is the world coming to? Some of us have the ability to ignore advertising if we don't actively block it, but there is always a huge market for tinfoil hats.
I think it's a far stretch -- and frankly downright rude -- to classify those of us who care not to be bombarded with advertisements as being paranoid conspiracy theorists.

For me anyways, blocking ads isn't even about privacy. It's about usability/readability.
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 07:51 PM   #25
TenFour
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I think it's a far stretch -- and frankly downright rude -- to classify those of us who care not to be bombarded with advertisements as being paranoid conspiracy theorists.
Sure, block the ads just like I do for better functionality. But not using Gmail has nothing to do with preventing you from seeing ads. Gmail's data gathering is to determine what ads you see, not the quantity of them. For example, you can use Gmail but use an ad-blocking and anti-tracking browser like Firefox or Brave. For most people using Gmail means a reduction in the dangerous ads you might see because their spam filters and security are so good. The tinfoil hats are for those who think that somehow or another not using Gmail makes them safer, when in reality for the vast majority of people it does not. I think Fastmail is great and have a subscription currently, but they have to comply with their local laws just like every other email service provider including Gmail. But, FM might be one of the few smaller providers that has the spam filtering, security, and functionality that can provide a good alternative to Gmail. Most smaller providers are just not capable of defending themselves against things like DNS attacks, or attacks by serious state-level hackers. Look at the recent attacks on Tutanota, and in the past few years on FM. Or, take a look at the data-stealing attacks on major companies like T-Mobile. That's the kind of real attack on your privacy and security that people need to worry about. Losing access to my main email account would be very disruptive to my life even though I mostly use my own domain. Having my email actually stolen because the provider's security team is one guy in his basement somewhere could be really bad. With smaller providers how do you know they aren't just sitting around reading your emails?
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 10:06 PM   #26
janusz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
With smaller providers how do you know they aren't just sitting around reading your emails?
How do you know bigger (and biggest) providers don't do the same? Ok, there are more messages to read, but they simply employ more people
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 10:25 PM   #27
BritTim
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Originally Posted by janusz View Post
How do you know bigger (and biggest) providers don't do the same? Ok, there are more messages to read, but they simply employ more people
There is never a 100% guarantee against something like that. However, part of the job of the security teams at the better large providers is auditing their employees to prevent that kind of abuse. Any employee at Google accessing a user's messages without a valid reason has a very good chance of losing their job.
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 10:29 PM   #28
yositimy
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TenFour seems to be a little naive, but thats the community we live in today. What rubs me is that when those of my acquaintances that choose to use gmail and I communicate, gmail now has information about me to data mine and sell. I never ceases to amaze me when I happen to mention a product to a gmail friend that usually spam shortly arrives. Its not only the sheep they data mine.
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 10:40 PM   #29
janusz
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Originally Posted by yositimy View Post
gmail now has information about me to data mine and sell.
Here we go again...
Info from 2017 about Gmail not data mining

Last edited by janusz : 26 Sep 2021 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 25 Sep 2021, 11:32 PM   #30
TenFour
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TenFour seems to be a little naive, but thats the community we live in today.
Yes, Gmail turned off ad targeting based on your emails in 2017. If you use Gmail you may still see ads if you choose to use Categories. I select not to see Categories, therefore I don't see any ads directly within Gmail except for ones emailed to me. Sure, you can avoid all Google products and you will be less subject to Google ad targeting but you will still see just as many ads. There are numerous companies out there tracking, buying and selling your Internet profile for ad targeting, and you will see ads based on something. The only way to reduce the number of ads you see is to use ad blockers or not use the Internet. I reiterate: I do not see a single ad using the web version of Gmail or via the app on my phone.
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