Automated Personality Change - Issues and Concerns

FromLine · 21 Dec 2005, 03:39 AM

I have some concerns regarding the automated Personality Change.

When I receive an email that is not included in my personality list, the From: Header changes to a text box and includes the email address in a text box.

Example:

something@alias.domain.com

or

alias@domain.com

If I send the email in the format of:

"John Doe" <service_example@alias.sent.com>

service_example@alias.sent.com appears in the text box without the name in quotations.

I don't know when this change was implemented, but I'm not comfortable with Fastmail automatically putting an email address - which I did not authorize or select - to be superimposed into the From: Header, placing the burden on me to change it, assuming I catch it in time.

Example:

Suppose I use an email address for forwarding only and have no desire to send from that address, it becomes superimposed in my From: Header if I click on the reply button.

This is especially undesirable when the email is sent to a service list address, not used for sending From:

I have checked into the Account Preferences to see if I could change this function, or turn it off, but I do not see such an option. For users that only want to send from one, or a few, email addresses pre-determined in the From: header drop-down menu, this creates a burden.

I am not comfortable with the super-imposing an email address into my From: Header - automatically - each time I respond to an email that may have reached my fastmail inbox via any number of ways.

Is there anyway this super-imposition could be removed or turned off?

rjlov · 21 Dec 2005, 11:41 AM

Hm, so you're saying that if somebody sends you email using "alias@domain.tld", then when you reply to that message you still want it to appear to come from "someotheralias@someotherdomain.tld". Is that correct?

The rationale behind the current behaviour is that if you've given somebody the "alias@domain.tld" address, then that is probably the address you want them to use, so we make it appear that any replies also came from that address.

Can you explain why you want it to work the other way? (I'm not being critical; it will help us address the issue if we understand where you're coming from.)

Perhaps we just have to add a preference to turn this behaviour on and off, although we're trying to avoid adding new preferences, where possible!

Richard.

FromLine · 21 Dec 2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rjlov
The rationale behind the current behaviour is that if you've given somebody the "alias@domain.tld" address, then that is probably the address you want them to use, so we make it appear that any replies also came from that address.

If I wanted to use that address, I'd put it in my personality drop-down list.

Quote:

Originally posted by rjlov
Can you explain why you want it to work the other way?

If I wanted to use that address, I'd put it in my personality drop-down list.

Before this was implemented, some time ago, it was changed so that the compose screen would recognize if it's already in our personality list. This was a positive change.

As an enhanced member, I can add 100 personalities. Anything I care to send from already in my drop-down menu.

In the rare instances where I want to add a unique address, it's as simple as clicking the "Change" button and pasting in the other address.

As for the personality preference changes, I understand you want to keep that page simple.

Personally, I would say scrap this whole process altogether. Those who use multiple email address already know how to do either of the following:

1) Add it to their personality list

2) Click "Change" and paste it in.

Also, as mentioned before, the formatting issue:

"John Doe" <service_example@alias.sent.com>

becomes

service_example@alias.sent.com

Not keeping the desired original format. Personalities, or those already in the drop-down menu, already address this and keep the format as it should be.

I became a fastmail user because it's the most "FromLine" friendly email service I know of. The drop-down menu, personality options, and change buttons give complete freedom, without going through a verification process (like gmail, mailsnare, yahoo, and other require).

This added feature is more of a nusiance than anything else. In my opinion, the best way to deal with this matter is to put it back the way it was before.

hadaso · 21 Dec 2005, 06:11 PM

I don't remeber everything, but this feature of replies to email sent to custom addresses that are not in the personality list was created to satisfy user demand (about not needing to keep very long lists of personalities for replying "from" a disposable address. I don't really remember the details.

Perhaps there was then a request to have replies to email sent to an alias or subdomain of an alias editable in the "from" line.

I have an address of alias subdomain type listed on one website so my students can reach me, but like Adam (fromline) I always reply to those email with another address (in my domain that I don't want to be displayed on a website). This means that each time I receive email to the published address I have to first change to "personalities" and then choose the correct personality. A compromise solution can be that instead of editable "from" those replies would have the personality drop-down with an additional "temporary personality" that uses the name and and custom address from the email being replied. In this setting replying with any of my personalities would require just choosing it from the drop-down. Editing the custom address would require an additional click (clicking "Change" would put it in an editable text field) or two actions if the default personality is the one chosen by default.. This can satisfy both fromline's request of being able to immediately choose a personality from the drop-down list, and those who want to be able to reply with a custom address without having to copy-paste things (Which might have been me a year or two ago. I don't remeber what the situation was then, but discovering that my employer has published my address openly on the website (that is regularly scanned by spammers) has caused me to change behaviour).

Another somewhat related thing: switching between the personality drop-down mode and the custom fromline mode requires reloading the compose screen. Perhaps it can be switched with Javascript instead of a round-trip to the server.

rjlov · 22 Dec 2005, 05:28 PM

Hm. OK, so it seems that there are two common situations:

1. You publish an email address in an untrusted environment, but you only conduct correspondence with trusted parties
2. You conduct correspondence with untrusted parties.

In 1, you're happy to give one of your main email addresses to anybody that you send messages to. In this case, you always want to use a personality, regardless of the address that the original message used to reach you.

In 2, you may want to use a 'throwaway' address, one for each correspondent, and you don't want them to know your main address. (These throwaway addresses are usually in a virtual domain.) In this case you always want to reply From the address that was originally used.

Ideally we could distinguish between these cases with no user intervention, in which case it would just automatically do the right thing. (In fact, the web interface goes to considerable lengths to pick an appropriate From. Just a shame that it's still failing.

)

Any ideas as to how to distinguish these situations?

Failing that...

hadaso, your suggestion seems like a reasonable compromise from a UI point of view.

The other main way around it that I can see is to have a preference, something like:
Set From: to original address when replying: [x] (otherwise chooses the closest personality)

Jeepers, it's quite difficult to explain exactly what this preference would do in a succinct way!

Richard.

PJS · 23 Dec 2005, 03:01 AM

Now I'm confused. Some time ago I asked for replies to automatically have a "From" address the same as the one used by the original email to get to me. Rob said that this would only happen if the receiving address was one of my personalities and to do anything else was very difficult. I was disappointed as I receive mail addressed to many hundreds of addresses and I was not going to set up personalities for all of them on the off chance I might one day reply to one of them.

This thread seems to suggest that it is now working how I want it. I quick test shows that it isn't!

I must be going mad!

Peter.

beq · 23 Dec 2005, 04:48 AM

I'm torn too Richard. At different times I've done both #1 and #2, though on first impression I would have identified myself with #2.

I also like hadaso's suggestion

Peter, the behavior is working fine for me (in both beta and regular servers)...

PJS · 23 Dec 2005, 06:20 AM

Re-reading an old thread (here) it seems that the automatic facility only works with addresses at Fastmail domains. Pity!

Peter.

beq · 23 Dec 2005, 06:40 AM

Hmm, I was actually referring to using addresses on my own domain (with my Enhanced account).

I never give out my FM-domain address as I only use my own domains exclusively (as a matter of policy).

PJS · 23 Dec 2005, 06:48 AM

So you are saying that replying to a mail sent to *@yourdomain.tld is sent "From" that address without having it as one of your personalities?

I will have to try it again.

Peter.

hadaso · 23 Dec 2005, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rjlov
...
hadaso, your suggestion seems like a reasonable compromise from a UI point of view.
...

Actually I think it's better than having a custom address in an editable field.
In scenario 1 (trusted party) you have immediate access to your personalities.
In scenario 2 (untrusted party) you'd want to use the same address that was used in the email you reply to. You would rarely want to a\edit that. And if you do it's a mouse-click away.

The only problem left is that you might reply with the wrong address because yo uforgot to change, but iths can happen in different ways: you reply to a trusted correspondent with the custom address they used to send you or you reply to an untrusted party "from" a good personality.

FromLine · 23 Dec 2005, 01:36 PM

Just to note, here's what I do when I want to use the address not in my personality list:

1) Click Reply

2) Highlight the entire email address and copy it

example: "Josh Novak" <amazon_december@alias.sent.com>

3) Click the "Change" button

4) Past the address

This is quick and simple for when I want to use the same address, and, it also includes the first and last name inside the quotations, which the current method does not do.

I've done this so many times, it takes me about a second or so.

Even with the current setup, I'd have to do this because a problem I have with the current method is that it only includes the email address, not the information inside the quotes.

If others consider steps 1-4 as simple as I do (simply copy and paste the email address after hitting reply), you could see why I prefer the old method.

21 Dec 2005, 03:39 AM	#1
FromLine The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,619	Automated Personality Change in the From: Header - Issues and Concerns I have some concerns regarding the automated Personality Change. When I receive an email that is not included in my personality list, the From: Header changes to a text box and includes the email address in a text box. Example: something@alias.domain.com or alias@domain.com If I send the email in the format of: "John Doe" <service_example@alias.sent.com> service_example@alias.sent.com appears in the text box without the name in quotations. I don't know when this change was implemented, but I'm not comfortable with Fastmail automatically putting an email address - which I did not authorize or select - to be superimposed into the From: Header, placing the burden on me to change it, assuming I catch it in time. Example: Suppose I use an email address for *forwarding only* and have no desire to send from that address, it becomes superimposed in my From: Header if I click on the reply button. This is especially undesirable when the email is sent to a service list address, not used for sending From: I have checked into the Account Preferences to see if I could change this function, or turn it off, but I do not see such an option. For users that only want to send from one, or a few, email addresses pre-determined in the From: header drop-down menu, this creates a burden. I am not comfortable with the super-imposing an email address into my From: Header - automatically - each time I respond to an email that may have reached my fastmail inbox via any number of ways. Is there anyway this super-imposition could be removed or turned off? Last edited by FromLine : 21 Dec 2005 at 03:44 AM.

21 Dec 2005, 11:41 AM	#2
rjlov Essential Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 282 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Hm, so you're saying that if somebody sends you email using "alias@domain.tld", then when you reply to that message you still want it to appear to come from "someotheralias@someotherdomain.tld". Is that correct? The rationale behind the current behaviour is that if you've given somebody the "alias@domain.tld" address, then that is probably the address you want them to use, so we make it appear that any replies also came from that address. Can you explain why you want it to work the other way? (I'm not being critical; it will help us address the issue if we understand where you're coming from.) Perhaps we just have to add a preference to turn this behaviour on and off, although we're trying to avoid adding new preferences, where possible! Richard.

21 Dec 2005, 06:11 PM	#4
hadaso The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Holon, Israel. Posts: 4,857	I don't remeber everything, but this feature of replies to email sent to custom addresses that are not in the personality list was created to satisfy user demand (about not needing to keep very long lists of personalities for replying "from" a disposable address. I don't really remember the details. Perhaps there was then a request to have replies to email sent to an alias or subdomain of an alias editable in the "from" line. I have an address of alias subdomain type listed on one website so my students can reach me, but like Adam (fromline) I always reply to those email with another address (in my domain that I don't want to be displayed on a website). This means that each time I receive email to the published address I have to first change to "personalities" and then choose the correct personality. A compromise solution can be that instead of editable "from" those replies would have the personality drop-down with an additional "temporary personality" that uses the name and and custom address from the email being replied. In this setting replying with any of my personalities would require just choosing it from the drop-down. Editing the custom address would require an additional click (clicking "Change" would put it in an editable text field) or two actions if the default personality is the one chosen by default.. This can satisfy both fromline's request of being able to immediately choose a personality from the drop-down list, and those who want to be able to reply with a custom address without having to copy-paste things (Which might have been me a year or two ago. I don't remeber what the situation was then, but discovering that my employer has published my address openly on the website (that is regularly scanned by spammers) has caused me to change behaviour). Another somewhat related thing: switching between the personality drop-down mode and the custom fromline mode requires reloading the compose screen. Perhaps it can be switched with Javascript instead of a round-trip to the server.

22 Dec 2005, 05:28 PM	#5
rjlov Essential Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 282 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Hm. OK, so it seems that there are two common situations: 1. You publish an email address in an untrusted environment, but you only conduct correspondence with trusted parties 2. You conduct correspondence with untrusted parties. In 1, you're happy to give one of your main email addresses to anybody that you send messages to. In this case, you always want to use a personality, regardless of the address that the original message used to reach you. In 2, you may want to use a 'throwaway' address, one for each correspondent, and you don't want them to know your main address. (These throwaway addresses are usually in a virtual domain.) In this case you always want to reply From the address that was originally used. Ideally we could distinguish between these cases with no user intervention, in which case it would just automatically do the right thing. (In fact, the web interface goes to considerable lengths to pick an appropriate From. Just a shame that it's still failing. ) Any ideas as to how to distinguish these situations? Failing that... hadaso, your suggestion seems like a reasonable compromise from a UI point of view. The other main way around it that I can see is to have a preference, something like: Set From: to original address when replying: [x] (otherwise chooses the closest personality) Jeepers, it's quite difficult to explain exactly what this preference would do in a succinct way! Richard.

23 Dec 2005, 03:01 AM	#6
PJS Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	Now I'm confused. Some time ago I asked for replies to automatically have a "From" address the same as the one used by the original email to get to me. Rob said that this would only happen if the receiving address was one of my personalities and to do anything else was very difficult. I was disappointed as I receive mail addressed to many hundreds of addresses and I was not going to set up personalities for all of them on the off chance I might one day reply to one of them. This thread seems to suggest that it is now working how I want it. I quick test shows that it isn't! I must be going mad! Peter.

23 Dec 2005, 04:48 AM	#7
beq Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 895	I'm torn too Richard. At different times I've done both #1 and #2, though on first impression I would have identified myself with #2. I also like hadaso's suggestion Peter, the behavior is working fine for me (in both beta and regular servers)...

23 Dec 2005, 06:20 AM	#8
PJS Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	Re-reading an old thread (here) it seems that the automatic facility only works with addresses at Fastmail domains. Pity! Peter.

23 Dec 2005, 06:40 AM	#9
beq Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 895	Hmm, I was actually referring to using addresses on my own domain (with my Enhanced account). I never give out my FM-domain address as I only use my own domains exclusively (as a matter of policy).

23 Dec 2005, 06:48 AM	#10
PJS Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	So you are saying that replying to a mail sent to *@yourdomain.tld is sent "From" that address without having it as one of your personalities? I will have to try it again. Peter.

23 Dec 2005, 01:36 PM	#12
FromLine The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,619	Just to note, here's what I do when I want to use the address not in my personality list: 1) Click Reply 2) Highlight the entire email address and copy it example: "Josh Novak" <amazon_december@alias.sent.com> 3) Click the "Change" button 4) Past the address This is quick and simple for when I want to use the same address, and, it also includes the first and last name inside the quotations, which the current method does not do. I've done this so many times, it takes me about a second or so. Even with the current setup, I'd have to do this because a problem I have with the current method is that it only includes the email address, not the information inside the quotes. If others consider steps 1-4 as simple as I do (simply copy and paste the email address after hitting reply), you could see why I prefer the old method.