Changing Virtual Domain Nameservers from Zoneedit to Messaging Engine? - Page 2

mingus · 2 May 2006, 01:17 PM

The thing I can't seem to solve easily with ZoneEdit is having MX records setup OK pointing to FastMail,
and also a CNAME record set for www.MYDOMAIN.tld to web.messagingengine.com
I also want just MYDOMAIN.tld to point to my file storage at FastMail as well
and not redirect it to www.MYDOMAIN.tld

(I can do it by WebForwarding+cloaking MYDOMAIN.tld to www.MYDOMAIN.tld
but this uses frames which I want to avoid)

I was using an A record to handle just MYDOMAIN.tld
How can I maintain this behaviour without the A record?

(ZoneEdit won't allow a CNAME for *.MYDOMAIN.tld with MX records set up
for *.MYDOMAIN.tld as well)

Thanks.

Anon48 · 2 May 2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrStrabismus
As I said you could have just set a CNAME record.

Point noted. I will need to set it up the way you described if I intend to use Dynamic DNS or to have more flexibility.

Thanks for the input.

Anon48

robmueller · 2 May 2006, 03:56 PM

Ah, am I missing something, why don't you just point your nameserver records to ns[1,2].messagingengine.com, then we'll serve the correct MX and A records for your domain for everything to just work. Or do you have some sub-domains you want to go elsewhere?

Rob

Quote:

Originally posted by mingus
The thing I can't seem to solve easily with ZoneEdit is having MX records setup OK pointing to FastMail,
and also a CNAME record set for www.MYDOMAIN.tld to web.messagingengine.com
I also want just MYDOMAIN.tld to point to my file storage at FastMail as well
and not redirect it to www.MYDOMAIN.tld

(I can do it by WebForwarding+cloaking MYDOMAIN.tld to www.MYDOMAIN.tld
but this uses frames which I want to avoid)

I was using an A record to handle just MYDOMAIN.tld
How can I maintain this behaviour without the A record?

(ZoneEdit won't allow a CNAME for *.MYDOMAIN.tld with MX records set up
for *.MYDOMAIN.tld as well)

Thanks.

mingus · 3 May 2006, 09:36 AM

Rob,
I want to keep control of the MX records (in particular),
and the DNS in general...

robmueller · 3 May 2006, 11:19 AM

Can't your setup CNAME records for yourdomain.com and www.yourdomain.com explicitly?

Rob

mingus · 3 May 2006, 11:44 AM

I have a CNAME for www.mydomain.com
I also have MX records for mydomain.com and *.mydomain.com
This is what happens if I try to add a CNAME for just mydomain.com or *.mydomain.com :

A validation error has occurred:
Since 'mydomain.com' has a mailserver defined using an MX record, you may not define the address for this name using a CNAME record. You should create an IP Address (A) record to define the address for this domain name instead, or remove the MX record first.

EDIT:
If I remove the MX record for the subdomain, it allows a CNAME for the subdomain....
So it clearly does not allow a CNAME for a domain if that domain has MX records setup ??

robmueller · 3 May 2006, 12:18 PM

Oh dang, that's annoying...

Let me talk with Bron, see if there's a better idea...

Rob

mingus · 3 May 2006, 01:13 PM

Tell me about it !!
Thanks for your help Rob...

robmueller · 3 May 2006, 04:45 PM

Currently we say set the CNAME to web.messagingengine.com. If we set the MX records for web.messagingengine.com to be correct (eg in[12].messagingengine.com), then everything should just work(TM). I'll check with Bron about that...

Rob

mingus · 4 May 2006, 09:33 AM

not quite sure how that will get around the fact that ZoneEdit won't allow
me to create the CNAME ?

Are you suggesting I can then delete the MX records I have setup, and they will be returned by the CNAME (referring to web.messagingengine.com) ?

PS. do you mean in[12].smtp.messagingengine.com ?

mingus · 4 May 2006, 11:06 AM

This is from the ZoneEdit help:

A CNAME is not the simple "deliver this A record instead of that one" mechanism that they at first appear to be when most people are first introduced to the concept. In fact, CNAMEs are intended to redirect all DNS based traffic for one domain to another. For this reason, it is a violation of the DNS protocol to have a CNAME and any other DNS record for the same domain name.

Here's why. It may seem a bit odd at first that if you have a CNAME redirecting "here.com" to "there.com", then that means you can't have a Mail Server (MX) record defined for "here.com" -- since that would be another DNS record for the same domain name "here.com" which is a violation. This is, in fact, the truth, and is also easily accounted for.

When an e-mail is sent to "root@here.com", the e-mail client requests the MX record for "here.com", and gets the CNAME instead. The e-mail client follows the CNAME to "there.com", and asks the DNS server at "there.com" for the MX record for "there.com"! The e-mail for "root@here.com" is then delivered to the mail server for "there.com", and that server had better be set up to handle e-mail for "here.com" or else that e-mail is going to get returned to sender!

It gets worse. Not all email clients understand this behavior of the DNS, so even if you set it up correctly, your email may get returned anyway! For this reason, if you set up a CNAME for the root of your domain, or if you set up a wildcard CNAME, you may not have any inappropriate MX records defined, and you will not receive technical support for e-mail related problems.

In addition, if your mail server is called "mail.anywhere.com", then you MUST NOT use a CNAME to define its IP address -- you MUST use an A record. Mail clients that send e-mail to "info@anywhere.com" will look for the MX record of "anywhere.com". They will discover that the mail server is called "mail.anywhere.com", and look for an A record. If a CNAME record is returned instead, the mail client will very likely not understand it, and return the e-mail to sender!

brong · 4 May 2006, 01:49 PM

We have created MX records for web.messagingengine.com now, so that should help.

Other than that - yeah, I see your point. I guess we may just have to set aside an IP address and stick with it - and in that case .61 is as good as any.

Bron.

mingus · 4 May 2006, 02:14 PM

OK. Thanks.
Seems I may have to go back to an A record, because just using CNAME records
I may as well just give over all the DNS to Fastmail, as I'll lose control of the MX records.

mingus · 4 May 2006, 02:17 PM

so the IP would be 66.111.4.61 (not .53 or .54 ?)

mingus · 4 May 2006, 02:43 PM

Could I be so bold as to suggest maybe the use of this IP address is documented
somewhere (internally and externally) to ensure it doesn't inadvertently
disappear in the future ?

3 May 2006, 09:36 AM	#19
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	Rob, I want to keep control of the MX records (in particular), and the DNS in general... Last edited by mingus : 3 May 2006 at 10:09 AM.

3 May 2006, 11:44 AM	#21
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	I have a CNAME for www.mydomain.com I also have MX records for mydomain.com and .mydomain.com This is what happens if I try to add a CNAME for just mydomain.com or .mydomain.com : A validation error has occurred: Since 'mydomain.com' has a mailserver defined using an MX record, you may not define the address for this name using a CNAME record. You should create an IP Address (A) record to define the address for this domain name instead, or remove the MX record first. EDIT: If I remove the MX record for the subdomain, it allows a CNAME for the subdomain.... So it clearly does not allow a CNAME for a domain if that domain has MX records setup ?? Last edited by mingus : 3 May 2006 at 12:03 PM.

4 May 2006, 09:33 AM	#25
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	not quite sure how that will get around the fact that ZoneEdit won't allow me to create the CNAME ? Are you suggesting I can then delete the MX records I have setup, and they will be returned by the CNAME (referring to web.messagingengine.com) ? PS. do you mean in[12].smtp.messagingengine.com ? Last edited by mingus : 4 May 2006 at 11:25 AM.

4 May 2006, 11:06 AM	#26
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	This is from the ZoneEdit help: A CNAME is not the simple "deliver this A record instead of that one" mechanism that they at first appear to be when most people are first introduced to the concept. In fact, CNAMEs are intended to redirect all DNS based traffic for one domain to another. For this reason, it is a violation of the DNS protocol to have a CNAME and any other DNS record for the same domain name. Here's why. It may seem a bit odd at first that if you have a CNAME redirecting "here.com" to "there.com", then that means you can't have a Mail Server (MX) record defined for "here.com" -- since that would be another DNS record for the same domain name "here.com" which is a violation. This is, in fact, the truth, and is also easily accounted for. When an e-mail is sent to "root@here.com", the e-mail client requests the MX record for "here.com", and gets the CNAME instead. The e-mail client follows the CNAME to "there.com", and asks the DNS server at "there.com" for the MX record for "there.com"! The e-mail for "root@here.com" is then delivered to the mail server for "there.com", and that server had better be set up to handle e-mail for "here.com" or else that e-mail is going to get returned to sender! It gets worse. Not all email clients understand this behavior of the DNS, so even if you set it up correctly, your email may get returned anyway! For this reason, if you set up a CNAME for the root of your domain, or if you set up a wildcard CNAME, you may not have any inappropriate MX records defined, and you will not receive technical support for e-mail related problems. In addition, if your mail server is called "mail.anywhere.com", then you MUST NOT use a CNAME to define its IP address -- you MUST use an A record. Mail clients that send e-mail to "info@anywhere.com" will look for the MX record of "anywhere.com". They will discover that the mail server is called "mail.anywhere.com", and look for an A record. If a CNAME record is returned instead, the mail client will very likely not understand it, and return the e-mail to sender! Last edited by mingus : 4 May 2006 at 11:33 AM.

4 May 2006, 02:17 PM	#29
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	so the IP would be 66.111.4.61 (not .53 or .54 ?) Last edited by mingus : 4 May 2006 at 03:08 PM.

2 May 2006, 01:17 PM	#16
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	The thing I can't seem to solve easily with ZoneEdit is having MX records setup OK pointing to FastMail, and also a CNAME record set for www.MYDOMAIN.tld to web.messagingengine.com I also want just MYDOMAIN.tld to point to my file storage at FastMail as well and not redirect it to www.MYDOMAIN.tld (I can do it by WebForwarding+cloaking MYDOMAIN.tld to www.MYDOMAIN.tld but this uses frames which I want to avoid) I was using an A record to handle just MYDOMAIN.tld How can I maintain this behaviour without the A record? (ZoneEdit won't allow a CNAME for .MYDOMAIN.tld with MX records set up for .MYDOMAIN.tld as well) Thanks.

3 May 2006, 11:19 AM	#20
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Can't your setup CNAME records for yourdomain.com and www.yourdomain.com explicitly? Rob

3 May 2006, 12:18 PM	#22
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Oh dang, that's annoying... Let me talk with Bron, see if there's a better idea... Rob

3 May 2006, 01:13 PM	#23
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	Tell me about it !! Thanks for your help Rob...

3 May 2006, 04:45 PM	#24
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Currently we say set the CNAME to web.messagingengine.com. If we set the MX records for web.messagingengine.com to be correct (eg in[12].messagingengine.com), then everything should just work(TM). I'll check with Bron about that... Rob

4 May 2006, 01:49 PM	#27
brong The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,696 Representative of: Fastmail.fm	We have created MX records for web.messagingengine.com now, so that should help. Other than that - yeah, I see your point. I guess we may just have to set aside an IP address and stick with it - and in that case .61 is as good as any. Bron.

4 May 2006, 02:14 PM	#28
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	OK. Thanks. Seems I may have to go back to an A record, because just using CNAME records I may as well just give over all the DNS to Fastmail, as I'll lose control of the MX records.

4 May 2006, 02:43 PM	#30
mingus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 126	Could I be so bold as to suggest maybe the use of this IP address is documented somewhere (internally and externally) to ensure it doesn't inadvertently disappear in the future ?