Delayed email

CyberDyne · 28th July 2010, 02:07 AM

If you're persung the boards and have time, would you mind taking a look at the headers of this message and confirm where you think the delay occured please? Google, or the sender?

Many thanks.

Code:

Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: xxx.174.141.15 is neither permitted nor 
denied by best guess record for domain of support@bbbbbb.net) client-ip=xxx.174.141.15;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: xxx.174.141.15
 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of support@bbbbbb.net) smtp.mail=support@bbbbbb.net
Received: from SCL-VM-EXXXX02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.14) by
 SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id
 14.0.702.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:34 +0100
Received: from xxx.174.141.6 (xxx.174.141.10) by mail.bbbbbb.co.uk
 (xxx.174.141.6) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010
 14:12:15 +0100
X-Mailer: Kayako SupportSuite v3.60.04
X-Priority: 3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:15 +0100
Message-ID: <l67wof.dbv@bbbbbb.net>
Subject: [#HGC-486211]: sendmail / smtp
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="=_5d398fb5870266ad969ec310a2bdc7cf"
CC:
From: bbb bbb <support@bbbbbb.net>
Reply-To: <support@bbbbbb.net>
To: <aaaaaa@googlemail.com>
Return-Path: support@bbbbbb.net

--=_5d398fb5870266ad969ec310a2bdc7cf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

BODY REMOVED

**Sherry** · 28th July 2010, 03:46 AM

By reading the received times from the bottom up (when sent) and listing them from the time they were sent shows a 3 (almost a 4) hour delay from the Microsoft server to the Google server. When that happens I don't know if the delay is from Microsoft not sending it right away or for Google not accepting it right away? I added the part in bold that is the time in GMT for the +100 and the -700. Maybe someone who knows this stuff can say which caused the delay but I could never be sure unless the delay shows on two servers before google got it or between two servers after google got it???

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:15 +0100
Received: from xxx.174.141.6 (xxx.174.141.10) by mail.bbbbbb.co.uk (xxx.174.141.6) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:15 +0100
Received: from SCL-VM-EXXXX02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.14) by SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.702.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:34 +0100 13:12:34
Received: from smtp.cccccc.co.uk (smtp.cccccc.co.uk [xxx.174.141.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id v8si12827523eeh.0.2010.07.27.09.56.15; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT) 16:56:15
Received: by xxx.14.48.5 with SMTP id u5mr243896eeb.93.1280249775484; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by xxx.227.131.165 with SMTP id x37cs45672wbs; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:16 -0700 (PDT)

Sherry

janusz · 28th July 2010, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

By reading the received times from the bottom up (when sent) and listing them from the time they were sent shows a 3 (almost a 4) hour delay from the Microsoft server to the Google server. The bold part is the time in GMT for the +100 and the -700.

[...]

Received: from SCL-VM-EXXXX02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.14) by SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.702.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:34 +0100 13:12:34
Received: from smtp.cccccc.co.uk (smtp.cccccc.co.uk [xxx.174.141.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id v8si12827523eeh.0.2010.07.27.09.56.15; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT) 16:56:15

This shows that Microsoft received the msg some 2.5 hours before Google got it. This certainly is a world record - hip hip hooray for MS

CyberDyne · 28th July 2010, 04:09 AM

Thanks guys, just as expected but I'm still unsure who to blame, lol.

**Sherry** · 28th July 2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberDyne

Thanks guys, just as expected but I'm still unsure who to blame, lol.

Sorry my knowledge on this stuff couldn't be more precise but I think it would just be a guess to think that Microsoft just held on to it for almost 4 hours unless someone who runs an email service knows or has some clue in the headers.

Sherry

CyberDyne · 28th July 2010, 04:36 AM

Hey no problem Sherry, I appreciate your reply all the same

**CyberSmurf** · 28th July 2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janusz

This shows that Microsoft received the msg some 2.5 hours before Google got it. This certainly is a world record - hip hip hooray for MS

I've seen worse.

William9 · 28th July 2010, 11:01 AM

But have you seen better?

n5bb · 28th July 2010, 11:02 AM

As far as I can see, the only connection to Microsoft is that the SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local server was using Microsoft SMTP software. I don't see any evidence that it's a Microsoft-owned domain.

The timestamps in the Received headers are (obviously) when that server received the message. So we can see when the final server at the mail.bbbbbb.co.uk domain (SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local) received that message, then we can see when the incoming server at Gmail (mx.google.com) received the message from the outgoing server (smtp.cccccc.co.uk).

The smtp.cccccc.co.uk server might have sat on that message doing nothing for 224 minutes (3 hours and 44 minutes) due to an outage or overloading, then sent it to Gmail. I doubt this.
Or Gmail might have had an outage or refused the connection for 224 minutes. I doubt this.
Or the smtp.cccccc.co.uk server might have tried to contact the Gmail server initially and failed (due to network connectivity problems or Gmail greylisting that server). When SMTP servers can't deliver a message on the first try, they try again on a preset interval, then after a preset number of failed attempts they should send a non-delivery notification message back to the sender. The initial delay is often 15 minutes, and then the delay may increase on later retries in some pattern (although this is configured at the particular server, and not specified by the RFC2821 SMTP Internet standard). Notice that the delay in this case is very close to 225 minutes, which might be due to any of these configurations (notice that it is common to double the delay on each retry):
- 15 delays of 15 minutes each
- 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 7 delays of 30 minutes
- 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 30 minutes, followed by 3 delays of 60 minutes
- 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 30 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 60 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 120 minutes. My guess is that this is the most likely situation.
Now why was there a problem the the connection to Gmail for such a long time? I don't know. A router or network line might have failed. There might be 5 different Internet transport companies involved with the connection between that company and Gmail. There could have been some temporary DNS problem causing a failed connection. These things happen, which is why the SMTP email standard specifies that the server should retry for come reasonable interval before giving up.

Bill

CyberDyne · 28th July 2010, 04:58 PM

As always, your answer is very thorough.
Many thanks Bill.

28th July 2010, 11:02 AM	#9
n5bb The "e" in e-mail Join Date: May 2004 Location: Irving, Texas Posts: 4,367	Delay probably due to SMTP retry interval (network connection problem) As far as I can see, the only connection to Microsoft is that the SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local server was using Microsoft SMTP software. I don't see any evidence that it's a Microsoft-owned domain. The timestamps in the Received headers are (obviously) when that server received the message. So we can see when the final server at the mail.bbbbbb.co.uk domain (SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local) received that message, then we can see when the incoming server at Gmail (mx.google.com) received the message from the outgoing server (smtp.cccccc.co.uk). The smtp.cccccc.co.uk server might have sat on that message doing nothing for 224 minutes (3 hours and 44 minutes) due to an outage or overloading, then sent it to Gmail. I doubt this. Or Gmail might have had an outage or refused the connection for 224 minutes. I doubt this. Or the smtp.cccccc.co.uk server might have tried to contact the Gmail server initially and failed (due to network connectivity problems or Gmail greylisting that server). When SMTP servers can't deliver a message on the first try, they try again on a preset interval, then after a preset number of failed attempts they should send a non-delivery notification message back to the sender. The initial delay is often 15 minutes, and then the delay may increase on later retries in some pattern (although this is configured at the particular server, and not specified by the RFC2821 SMTP Internet standard). Notice that the delay in this case is very close to 225 minutes, which might be due to any of these configurations (notice that it is common to double the delay on each retry): 15 delays of 15 minutes each 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 7 delays of 30 minutes 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 30 minutes, followed by 3 delays of 60 minutes 1 delay of 15 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 30 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 60 minutes, followed by 1 delay of 120 minutes. My guess is that this is the most likely situation. Now why was there a problem the the connection to Gmail for such a long time? I don't know. A router or network line might have failed. There might be 5 different Internet transport companies involved with the connection between that company and Gmail. There could have been some temporary DNS problem causing a failed connection. These things happen, which is why the SMTP email standard specifies that the server should retry for come reasonable interval before giving up. Bill

28th July 2010, 03:46 AM	#2
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,432	By reading the received times from the bottom up (when sent) and listing them from the time they were sent shows a 3 (almost a 4) hour delay from the Microsoft server to the Google server. When that happens I don't know if the delay is from Microsoft not sending it right away or for Google not accepting it right away? I added the part in bold that is the time in GMT for the +100 and the -700. Maybe someone who knows this stuff can say which caused the delay but I could never be sure unless the delay shows on two servers before google got it or between two servers after google got it??? Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:15 +0100 Received: from xxx.174.141.6 (xxx.174.141.10) by mail.bbbbbb.co.uk (xxx.174.141.6) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:15 +0100 Received: from SCL-VM-EXXXX02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.14) by SCH-EXXXXE02.webfarm.local (10.0.2.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.0.702.0; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:34 +0100 13:12:34 Received: from smtp.cccccc.co.uk (smtp.cccccc.co.uk [xxx.174.141.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id v8si12827523eeh.0.2010.07.27.09.56.15; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT) 16:56:15 Received: by xxx.14.48.5 with SMTP id u5mr243896eeb.93.1280249775484; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xxx.227.131.165 with SMTP id x37cs45672wbs; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Sherry

28th July 2010, 04:09 AM	#4
CyberDyne Master of the @ Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,248	Thanks guys, just as expected but I'm still unsure who to blame, lol.

28th July 2010, 04:36 AM	#6
CyberDyne Master of the @ Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,248	Hey no problem Sherry, I appreciate your reply all the same

28th July 2010, 11:01 AM	#8
William9 Master of the @ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,069	But have you seen better?

28th July 2010, 04:58 PM	#10
CyberDyne Master of the @ Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,248	As always, your answer is very thorough. Many thanks Bill.