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Old 19 Sep 2019, 07:16 AM   #31
Terry
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Not sure who is at fault but if you use gmail there is no problem....not that I am a google fan

Last edited by Terry : 19 Sep 2019 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 06:07 AM   #32
digp
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The problem here is MS. Forefront or whatever they call it is absolutely crap.

I would suggest a host that uses mailchannels to deliver email should help you.

Try:

https://hostballs.com/t/myw-its-my-b...s-angeles/2914
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 06:35 AM   #33
Terry
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We are now using gmail for the important emails, its a nuisance using 2 email systems but a quick work round.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 06:59 AM   #34
TenFour
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Email services can't block Gmail universally or else they block 90% of incoming email.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 07:04 AM   #35
Terry
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Yes that's what we thought, its just a work round and a way of evaluating gmail....I cant say I am a fan as it lacks alias's, but have now set a few up in outlook now as that may be another option for sending to people we know who are using MS.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 11:54 AM   #36
benaboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digp View Post
The problem here is MS. Forefront or whatever they call it is absolutely crap.

I would suggest a host that uses mailchannels to deliver email should help you.

Try:

https://hostballs.com/t/myw-its-my-b...s-angeles/2914
Yeah, it's definitely Microsoft's issue, it's just too bad it affected my Fastmail account. Microsoft is being such a pain about this. Obviously they're just blocking emails and their techs can't even answer why. You don't know the hoops I'm continuing to go through in trying to provide them EVERYTHING they ask for in the hopes that at some point I'm going to get an accurate answer from them.

There are a whole bunch of posts in another forum I was on this morning of people complaining and trying to get answers. Apparently, someone got a little steamed as the thread was eventually closed by an MS moderator for becoming "too heated."

Well jeez, Microsoft. What did you expect? You're messing with peoples' email!
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Old 22 Sep 2019, 04:20 AM   #37
hans2010
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Originally Posted by benaboo View Post
... and he said "this is simply telling us the email was flagged as spam with a confidence level of 5 due to the content being sent from the email host, nothing more. Again, since the nature of this case is out of scope for our support channels, I'm afraid this issue is in the hands of the email host & the domain provider."
Here's a wild hypothesis. It could be that someone, somewhere, clicked "This is spam" on an email they received from you (perhaps accidentally), and then Microsoft (or some blacklisting service they're using) blacklisted mail from your domain but only if it originates from FM's outbound mail relays.

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Originally Posted by benaboo View Post
Microsoft is being such a pain about this. Obviously they're just blocking emails and their techs can't even answer why.
Given that email isn't rocket science, I'd guess that the intransigence of the Microsoft techs is caused by either gross stupidity or laziness. They may be happy to pretend it's someone else's fault when you can't prove that it's theirs.
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Old 24 Sep 2019, 09:04 AM   #38
benaboo
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Just another update. I got a little nasty with Microsoft's rep, after which he came back and requested more email samples of the time when the issue occurred. Luckily, I had done a LOT of tests and still had everything sitting in MS quarantine. I even gave them the messages in msg format, which is what they wanted for some reason.

Today I finally heard back from them.

They claimed the support team is not given access to decoded definitions of the Rule ID's in the X-Forefront-Antispam headers, so they finally escalated the case.

"The response we received back was a confirmation that upon analysis of these .msg files, engineering has modified the antispam filter to avoid tagging this type of message as spam in the future. When inquiring for further information, they were unable to provide further specifics, as the exact checks made by Exchange Online Protection spam filters are not disclosed externally for security reasons."

Since the messages were extremely simple, and should not in any way have looked like spam, I'm hoping this will help some of you. Maybe I'll even come back to Fastmail at some point.

Cheers.
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Old 24 Sep 2019, 09:31 AM   #39
Terry
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Lets hope that will help us.
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Old 24 Sep 2019, 02:31 PM   #40
BritTim
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Originally Posted by benaboo View Post
..., they were unable to provide further specifics, as the exact checks made by Exchange Online Protection spam filters are not disclosed externally for security reasons.".
The old "security by obscurity" line. Microsoft should know better. The reason why there is a major problem is because the system is so opaque, and no one can provide decent problem reports. Indeed, as Microsoft support informed you, they are in a position where they cannot support their clients.

Under the circumstances, I cannot see how we can have any confidence that there is a long term fix for the issue.

Thank you for pursuing this and keeping us updated.
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Old 26 Sep 2019, 02:16 PM   #41
benaboo
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Under the circumstances, I cannot see how we can have any confidence that there is a long term fix for the issue.
In fact, I had to log in to my dad's machine over TeamViewer to troubleshoot an unrelated issue for him. I had set him up on Fastmail a long time ago. He uses it with TDS with an @tds.net email. Some time ago I set him up to use the Fastmail SMTP if I'm remembering correctly, because the TDS SMTP server was unreliable. So we use the "alias" when sending.

When I saw Fastmail on his desktop, I asked if I could send an email to my work address. It was just a simple sentence, something we email each other all the time.

At least it made it through and didn't get hung up in quarantine, but it was marked as spam and went into my work spam filter. Not confidence-inspiring. But yeah, you're right. MS is making it really difficult for us.

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Thank you for pursuing this and keeping us updated.
Sure thing!
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Old 26 Sep 2019, 07:00 PM   #42
TenFour
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Having used Office 365 email for awhile you can get it to receive most email by adding to your contacts and whitelisting. OTOH when I try sending something to myself for the first time from various email services my email goes straight to Junk in many cases. Good luck getting MS to tell us why anything works the way it does! Or Google or Apple for that matter. In my experience Google's filtering is far superior and has many fewer false positives. Most email services don't give you much control over it.
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Old 29 Sep 2019, 05:36 AM   #43
n5bb
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I have had a Fastmail account for 15 years and also have had an Office365 account for 6 years, as well as a Microsoft Exchange account at work. I often send messages from Fastmail (using Fastmail-owned domains and my custom Fastmail-hosted domain) to and from my personal, work, and other Outlook accounts. I never have any problems with emails going to spam or being rejected in either direction (FM to Outlook or Outlook to FM).

Unfortunately, spam has become a major problem, and big data is being used to fight it. For example, what if someone sends you an email with 20 of their friends (who you donít know) in the CC list. You reply-to-all and some of those 20 friends-of-your-friend mark the message as spam (on purpose or by accident). If at a later time you send a message to those people (or other users of their email service, such as Outlook), will your message be treated as spam?

Because the From address the recipient sees is so easily spoofed by the sender, itís dangerous to rely solely on the From address to whitelist or block incoming messages. Fastmail at least has a way to mark messages as not-spam, but that feature doesnít seem to be available for my Outlook account (when viewed from the Outlook iOS client). I just looked at my Outlook.com account, and the only message in my Junk Mail folder was sent from Microsoft to inform me about an activity at my Microsoft OneDrive account! So Microsoft marked their own internally-generated message as spam.

Bill
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Old 3 Oct 2019, 12:51 AM   #44
benaboo
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Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Having used Office 365 email for awhile you can get it to receive most email by adding to your contacts and whitelisting.
Yes, whitelisting is always an option, but the recipient has to know that they're not getting your email first!
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Old 3 Oct 2019, 12:53 AM   #45
benaboo
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I never have any problems with emails going to spam or being rejected in either direction (FM to Outlook or Outlook to FM).
This was also my experience (been using both about as long as you have)... Until it wasn't last month.

Quote:
I just looked at my Outlook.com account, and the only message in my Junk Mail folder was sent from Microsoft to inform me about an activity at my Microsoft OneDrive account! So Microsoft marked their own internally-generated message as spam.
That happened to me two weeks with a Google One email. It ended up in spam. Guess Google can't create email messages that get around its own spam filters either.
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