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FastMail Forum All posts relating to FastMail.FM should go here: suggestions, comments, requests for help, complaints, technical issues etc. |
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24 Dec 2018, 04:58 AM | #16 | ||
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Google and Facebook have gotten their fair share of criticism, and at least with gmail and Facebook, you have a choice whether to use them or not. You don't have a choice when the government decides it wants to go looking through your email. Quote:
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4 Jan 2019, 05:42 AM | #17 | |
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The arguments in favor of invasive laws such those passed in Australia completely miss the point, and it's honestly exhausting to have to explain over and over again the fundamental principles of privacy and freedom of speech. Such laws harm the average, innocent user far more than they help, and they enable the potential for incredible abuse. The unintended (and often unpredictable) consequences are far more troubling than the so-called benefits, and unfortunately, we are witnessing the creation of precedent and infrastructure that will have enormous potential for negative impact on society. I also think this is a generational issue to some degree, and these idiotic laws are buoyed up by lousy reasoning and apathy, plus the younger generation is clueless as to what can happen when such power is truly abused. And those "bad actors" who are supposed to be targeted by the new laws can quickly adapt and find ways to circumvent them, thus encouraging even more invasive laws. It is a giant unfolding tragedy that will cause immense problems in the future. One of the worst and most predictable outcomes of these kinds of laws, is that infrastructure to comply with such regulations will be increasingly forced on services we rely upon every day for personal, private communications, eroding the security of a number of our services. This will creep slowly but surely across the Five Eyes countries, and even if one or more of them don't duplicate the regulations, their global application platforms will duplicate the vulnerabilities. It is very sad to see such stupidity continue to reign in government mandates, and the consequences will be felt far and wide, well beyond Australia. I for one am now reconsidering my usage of FastMail. I'm not satisfied by FM's response, and definitely not satisfied by the justifications and protections related to the current law. Not to mention the ineptitude of the people running any oversight of such powerful invasive regulations, and where they might go next. At the minimum, I feel I will have to look to change my habits and usage of email and related tools. Like I mentioned, I feel like we're fighting a losing battle, and certain fundamental rights will continue to be eroded. For me, anything sensitive or personal will most likely not flow through Fastmail anymore, for example... not sure if that means I cancel my accounts, or if I reduce/change usage patterns over time. We'll see. EDIT: annoying typo -- "untended" should have been "unintended" Last edited by ioneja : 4 Jan 2019 at 08:48 PM. Reason: typo |
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4 Jan 2019, 10:25 AM | #18 |
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What are your/peoples thoughts on the current best alternative email providers given the implication of these changes in Australian law?
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4 Jan 2019, 09:47 PM | #19 | |
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I think there are just a handful of approaches to privacy in this situation, and I'm not sure which one I'll apply to FastMail in light of the new law (and the apparent/potential direction of the laws), and also FastMail's inadequate (IMO) response. Maybe if we're lucky, they'll reverse course... but I don't see solid evidence of that. I see this law as a little gateway experiment in a way by the Five Eyes countries to see how far they can push things. And I certainly don't see enough outrage in Australia to reverse course. Welcome to the new normal IMO. Folks, it's a very slippery slope... So here are the approaches I'm considering: 1) Privacy by anonymity -- I may just pull FastMail's email back to mega US providers that allow somewhat of a semblance of privacy due to their massive size. There's something to be said about getting lost in the noise, I hate to say. I have heavily used various paid business email accounts at Microsoft and Google (enterprise Office 365 and paid G Suite accounts), so I might just fold my FastMail email into one of those services with another paid account. US corporate liability standards and better EULAs/SLAs add another layer of accountability to those services, which IMO provides a slight improvement in terms of protection. 2) Privacy by US-based security-oriented service with extra hoops to jump through -- I may sign up for Luxsci again, which although very small, they have a decent security focus, and they have HIPAA compliant services, which is one more hoop anyone has to jump through... which is a slight improvement in terms of protection. Plus they have vastly superior customer support compared to FastMail. Downside they are more expensive. 3) Privacy by jurisdiction -- I might move more mail over to services located in jurisdictions that have far superior laws. Right now I already have an account at Runbox, which has a better jurisdiction than FastMail by far, and I've also been looking at ProtonMail as an option, and a while ago I was looking at what is now called Kolab Now. The problem with these kinds of providers is that by default their servers are associated with the perception that their services are for people who specifically seek privacy, and that carries its own marker TBH. You're basically advertising that you want privacy when you use those services. Runbox to a lesser extend BTW, since it existed prior to the whole privacy mess we live in now. My main problem with Runbox, though, is that I can never escape the feeling that they are going to disappear on me... or get crushed by some attack or philosophical change in the legal winds that blow in Norway, although they keep hanging in there. Who knows? Runbox is the little provider that keeps going and going... and the folks there are really nice, and I like what they are trying to do. 4) Privacy by changing usage patterns -- I might just stick with FastMail and simply change my email patterns and only run less personal stuff through it. After all, if you remove all the jurisdiction and Five Eyes issues, FastMail is actually a very good service -- good interface, good features, good uptime... It will be hard to say goodbye to FastMail entirely. I just don't consider it in the category of privacy-oriented services at this point... it was always borderline before, but now I have to demote it a notch. 5) Privacy by spreading it around -- so the last approach I'm personally willing to take, which is more or less the way I've been doing it -- is by spreading things around to a bunch of providers. It's a hassle of course, but it creates little firewalls between pieces of my content. 6) Privacy by self-managed encryption -- of course I have to mention there is the hard-core encryption approach, and this would obviously solve many of the issues. However, once again, you are advertising that you want privacy, but more significantly, you are introducing a whole new layer of hassle. I have yet to find a service or workflow that didn't get in the way of basic smooth communication, and I've never been able to make it work for normal life. Alas, I have had to admit to myself that I actually need to find a balance that includes simplicity and convenience to some degree too. And so this approach is not really going to work for me until someone comes up with a really great way to do it. And honestly, at that point, you are only as safe as your weakest link... but that's a different discussion. So I'm still not sure what I will do, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic... but well, I am now pessimistic when it comes to these issues and FastMail. Last edited by ioneja : 4 Jan 2019 at 10:05 PM. |
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5 Jan 2019, 04:15 AM | #20 |
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One further approach, very tricky these days for most people, is to host your own mail server. Security and spam issues may make this time consuming.
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5 Jan 2019, 04:29 AM | #21 | |
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It definitely is a viable option though... there is good documentation out there (including in this forum!) on how to set up and secure an email server, and with careful security/patch maintenance and monitoring at a really good hosting provider, it could work. I very much respect any brave soul who ventures into email hosting... |
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5 Jan 2019, 05:44 AM | #22 |
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But the F/m servers are in the US along with all the data so are they governed by Australia law or US Law?
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5 Jan 2019, 07:33 AM | #23 |
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I think that while there is the ability for an email Administrator to recover or access an account, then there is always a security hole in the service.
For us in Australia, looking for an alternative is a moot point. We are now obliged to unlock our devices if requested. Our recent laws may have implications for all residents of 5 eyes countries too. A nice little video here |
5 Jan 2019, 07:45 AM | #24 | |
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5 Jan 2019, 08:24 AM | #25 | |
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The more I learn about it, the more I realize this new Australian law is so terrible and insanely stupid I can't even believe the parliament voted for it. I don't see any real, meaningful oversight mechanism... at least in the US we have judicial oversight (and yes, we even have a lovely secretive FISA court, but it's still a court, right?!?!)... the Aussies just blew right past that and set a new low.... what in the world just happened? And did you read about the whistleblower provisions? It's positively draconian. The language is so vague and subject to interpretation... and tramples so thoroughly on due process, I don't see how any company that values their data ANYWHERE will ever trust an Australian IT company at this point... and any big international service that operates in Australia is going to have to deal with this one way or another. What a mess. Even on a business level, the Australian government just lobbed a giant bomb at their own IT industry. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm certain I'll be migrating away from FastMail, unless Australia comes to her senses. If I were involved with FastMail, I'd be signing on to any huge lawsuit right now against this law... oh, but wait, Australia doesn't have an actual Bill of Rights... so I guess the legal battle will be that much more difficult... Or, I'd be packing up my bags and moving FastMail to a better jurisdiction. |
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5 Jan 2019, 08:49 AM | #26 | |
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Effectively, the way I see it, any Company/App that provides services to an Australian is impacted by these laws. Or will there be an App for Australians (with the backdoor facility) and another version for everyone else? |
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5 Jan 2019, 09:34 AM | #27 | ||
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5 Jan 2019, 10:05 AM | #28 | |
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BTW, Runbox customer service is excellent, very personal, very competent. Not quite to the level of Luxsci (which is the gold standard IMO), but still much better than FastMail. The folks at Runbox are very nice and have a good philosophy and direction IMO, so I plan to stick with them for at least one of my accounts. Just not sure I want to move tons of email over to them yet! :-) And don't get me wrong, FastMail is still good... minus the jurisdiction issues... After the Opera adventure, they really settled into a decent groove. I just don't think I can stomach dealing with this whole Australia insanity and Five Eyes mess much more. Very true. The other day I felt strangely, really good in Runbox 6, which felt like good ol' email used to feel. Usually I find it limiting but tolerable, but there was something zen-like about it. Plus it just works. |
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5 Jan 2019, 03:02 PM | #29 |
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I suppose in a nut shell we don't want a S11 type situation so I suppose they really need these powers to sort out all the bad guys.
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5 Jan 2019, 04:14 PM | #30 |
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I think these two facts are strongly connected with each other. When customers like and trust a company, they will overlook a lot of defects in the service. Frankly, that is why FastMail survived some years ago when reliability was a major concern, but their honesty and obvious desire to overcome the problems kept so many of us loyal.
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