Classic interface now broken

[placebo]

I can see why from a technical reason they did not have a reason to shut the interface off, but from a business standpoint, I think they need to provide more certainty to their users. I mean, look at the second post in this thread. I know rabarberski was joking, but he does have a point. The writing was on the wall two years ago, and there are still people complaining about the old interface being "suddenly" turned off.

And FastMail doesn't even have to shut it off. They could just say after some specific date, it will no longer be supported; use at your own risk; if something breaks it in the future, don't expect it to get fixed; etc.

[NumberSix]

Originally Posted by placebo

I can see why from a technical reason they did not have a reason to shut the interface off, but from a business standpoint, I think they need to provide more certainty to their users.

I disagree... this is not like other cases of customers depending on something, where they will be severely impacted if it goes away. If anything, I'm kinda surprised they haven't found a technical reason yet.

I think it's a business win for FM to have people staying on longer out of inertia. It's not like they've been deceptive.... the one thing that is certain is that "old" will go away eventually, and the customers have been duly informed. Those for whom this is an absolute dealbreaker have left already. The ones who are more likely to succumb to inertia (call them "procrastinators" perhaps), are the ones we're dealing with on the forum lately

[NumberSix]

Originally Posted by newcrest

Companies that built their customer base on a product of a certain quality have not faired well when they have made changes to the product that they know their customers love. Coca Cola with New Coke, Cadbury with smaller packaging and palm oil...

You know your business history well, but the fallacy in your argument is that somehow the interface to the web client is all there is to Fastmail, or that it is by far and away the most critical aspect of the service. For most of us, this is just plain wrong. Therefore, your conclusion based on the analogy to other companies (that users will abandon FM in droves) is also wrong.

[David]

Originally Posted by NumberSix

I think it's a business win for FM to have people staying on longer out of inertia. It's not like they've been deceptive.... the one thing that is certain is that "old" will go away eventually, and the customers have been duly informed. Those for whom this is an absolute dealbreaker have left already. The ones who are more likely to succumb to inertia (call them "procrastinators" perhaps), are the ones we're dealing with on the forum lately

I really doubt that hanging on to the old interface (until the last gasp) will bode well for Fastmail - most will see it as a cash grab. Sure it will make them a few extra dollars (short term) but it will be at the expense of long term gain. The old interface has been breaking (intermittently) for a long time now. Is this the best way to promote the new, many might ask.....

[sflorack]

Originally Posted by placebo

And FastMail doesn't even have to shut it off. They could just say after some specific date, it will no longer be supported; use at your own risk; if something breaks it in the future, don't expect it to get fixed; etc.

I agree with David that it wouldn't be a good idea.

IMHO, people are going to complain about any change, no matter how small (or even true). We'll have to deal with another 3 months of people making outrageous claims like:

• Fastmail is so SLLLOOWWW now!
• Fastmail is BROKEN!
• What the heck!? I don't want this thing you people call PROGRESSION!
• Fastmail doesn't care about their users! They're doing this to screw us!
• I can't do what I used to be able to do! No, I won't explain myself.
• If this doesn't change, I'm going to leave!
• It's not worth my time telling you what I don't like about the interface. But here is a 500 word essay telling you how I think this is all an Opera-driven conspiracy!
• Fastmail doesn't work like it used it.. but truthfully, I just don't like the color changes. Yet if I say that, my argument won't hold any water.
• These guys want us to learn programming! (Yes, if you consider Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V "programming", then yes.. we do.)

I'm (mostly) kidding here. For the record, I've helped lots of people "learn to live" with the new interface.

I just ask that everyone who has complaints about the new interface realize, "If you are calm and concise about your issues, some of us may be able to help. It MAY take a little effort on your part -- cutting and pasting a CSS or Java tweak. If you're offended about being asked to perform this or spend 5 minutes learning different ways of staying productive, please send your complaints directly to Fastmail support -- because there is nothing we can do for you."

[Pfolson]

Originally Posted by sflorack

I just ask that everyone who has complaints about the new interface realize, "If you are calm and concise about your issues, some of us may be able to help. It MAY take a little effort on your part -- cutting and pasting a CSS or Java tweak. If you're offended about being asked to perform this or spend 5 minutes learning different ways of staying productive, please send your complaints directly to Fastmail support -- because there is nothing we can do for you."

Exactly right as always, sflorack. I've been trying to make this same point, with little success. I keep hearing how people are now expected to "become programmers," which is the farthest thing from the truth imaginable. It's not programming, not by a long shot. Essentially it's 1) Creating a file, 2) pasting some text into a file, and 3) putting that file in a specific location. It's not much harder than things people do on their computers every day, without even thinking about it. Heck, it's scarcely harder than quoting and formatting and posting here on EMD. But when people are determined to be angry, there's just no way to reason with them.

Paul

[Mugwhamp]

Originally Posted by sflorack

I just ask that everyone who has complaints about the new interface realize, "If you are calm and concise about your issues, some of us may be able to help. It MAY take a little effort on your part -- cutting and pasting a CSS or Java tweak. If you're offended about being asked to perform this or spend 5 minutes learning different ways of staying productive, please send your complaints directly to Fastmail support -- because there is nothing we can do for you."

And the congregation said: "Amen!"

[hadaso]

Originally Posted by Pfolson

... Essentially it's 1) Creating a file, 2) pasting some text into a file, and 3) putting that file in a specific location.

Then realizing it doesn't work as expected, then going back to the forum to ask again, then being told to put a "domready wrapper" around it, then asking what a "domready wrapper" is, and how exactly you do the wrapping. etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Pfolson

It's not much harder than things people do on their computers every day, without even thinking about it

People are calling support that then remotely controls their PC to open some control panel app and press OK several times for them because it's too complicated for them to follow instructions.

Putting together pieces of javascript is way too complicated for people that haven't done any kind of programming (or at least some web development, playing with html source). Most people never cut and paste code (or even use dialogs to change the defaults of their OS).

FastMail created an interface that can allow a lot of customization by very few users. However they did not provide a straightforward way to share it with less technically oriented users. There's plenty they could have done to make it easier to share stylesheets or tweaks: they could have automated the creation of the custom-ui/css and custom-ui/js folders through a control in the Account preferences screen (in the "Display" section of that screen, where stylesheets are selected and tweaks are turned on or off). And they could have put there controls that upload files into these folders and select one of them as the style. They could have put a control that appends text to the tweaks.css file so tweaks are more easily shared with people that find it intimidating to navigate through the file folders and edit the stylesheet through the "file details" screen. Actually some of this may be doable using tweaks.js on the Account preferences screen, but it would be difficult and I would be careful applying any tweaks to that screen.

Javascript customization is more difficult to package, but probably there are things that can be done to make it easier to share these tweaks. When the interface was young I thought it can be a users' project to somehow standardize the way we write tweaks so we can more easily share them. It didn't happen. However FastMail could have looked at what people are doing with these customizations and incorporate some of them as options (that don't requiring user supplied code). And they could have supplied a few more styles that demonstrate how to make the interface more radically different. They created a very configurable interface but they hardly use this configurability.

[the bishop]

Why has this thread that was about helping with the good interface somehow transformed into propaganda about the new slow interface? It's like no matter what a thread is about, it always comes back to 'classic is dead, here's why new slow one is better, like it or leave it'.

It's like the Kevin Bacon game. Within 5 posts your thread will be in some way about the new interface.

[hadaso]

Originally Posted by the bishop

Why has this thread that was about helping with the good interface somehow transformed into propaganda about the new slow interface?

Well, that's because the OP included this line:

Originally Posted by physci

I hope this is not the beginning of the end of the classic interface. I was hoping to have more time to look for alternatives to fastmail.

that was immediately replied to in the second post":

Originally Posted by rabarberski

Well, they waited 2 years for you to find an alternative solution, but without progress from your side, they decided to pull the plug.

(sorry, couldn't resist )

So it was about the old interface being replaced by the new one from post #1!

[the bishop]

Originally Posted by hadaso

Well, that's because the OP included this line:
that was immediately replied to in the second post":
So it was about the old interface being replaced by the new one from post #1!

I read it differently. Alternatives to Fastmail after the classic interface was gone. I don't see anything about OP wanting to talk about the newer interface, just what to replace the good one with after it is turned off.

Just probably our points of view being different and all. I can't seem to find any thread that doesn't turn into a talk about the newer interface though so my thought is not entirely far fetched

[erimess]

Originally Posted by rabarberski

Well, they waited 2 years for you to find an alternative solution, but without progress from your side, they decided to pull the plug.

I agree that you could curtail these types of comments. I was not even aware until fairly recently that a new interface even existed. Tonight is the first time I've ever seen a comment about anyone having used this new interface two years ago! Are you even aware that to some of us, this is truly a "new" interface? How can someone make a decision about something of which they are totally unaware???

I mean, really, excuse us all to you-know-where for not being as much in-the-know as you are.

And people do not like change - it's human nature. Could some of you stop acting like it's a sin or something?

[Mugwhamp]

Originally Posted by erimess

I was not even aware until fairly recently that a new interface even existed. Tonight is the first time I've ever seen a comment about anyone having used this new interface two years ago!

Respectfully, I believe you've already informed us that FM sent you newsletters--as they did to all subscribers--which you chose not to read citing your lack of time; therefore your ignorance of the changes seems to lie at your door.

[the bishop]

Originally Posted by Mugwhamp

Respectfully, I believe you've already informed us that FM sent you newsletters--as they did to all subscribers--which you chose not to read citing your lack of time; therefore your ignorance of the changes seems to lie at your door.

I think he means that regardless of who is to blame and who didn't read what, it still doesn't change the fact that some of these folks have not been aware until it was forced upon them by changing the url so to them it's a new thing.

[rabarberski]

Originally Posted by erimess

I agree that you could curtail these types of comments. I was not even aware until fairly recently that a new interface even existed.
...
I mean, really, excuse us all to you-know-where for not being as much in-the-know as you are.

erimess, don't take everything so seriously.

My joke was to the original poster, who DID seem to be aware for some time about the existence of this new interface following his words: 'I hope this is not the beginning of the end of the classic interface. I was hoping to have more time to look for alternatives to fastmail.'

Anyway, this was my last contribution to the whole old/new interface discussion. It's far from constructive anymore and too much yelling back and forth.