five-ten-sg

robmueller · 27 Apr 2007, 06:59 PM

As some people have noticed, five-ten-sg (http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php) have listed all messagingengine.com ip's in their "free" range. In general that shouldn't be a problem, but unfortunately some systems seem to have a dumb setup to use any listing on five-ten-sg as a "block" event. *sigh*

I've sent a message to the maintainer to try and get delisted. Since it appears to be a pretty privately run RBL, there's no guarantee of course. Anyway, if anyone knows more about who runs the list or know someone who might be able to provide some influence, it would be appreciated.

Rob

---

To: blackhole18@five-ten-sg.com
Subject: Listing of 66.111.4.0/24 (messagingengine.com) as free

Hi

A few months ago, you started listing messagingengine.com IPs as "free"
(Free mail providers). Unfortunately a bunch of brain dead providers out
there seem to use *any* listing on five-ten as a "block" event, which means
that emails to various places from our users have been getting blocked.
While it's true that we do provide free accounts through FastMail.FM, we do
some pretty strict limiting, and given the brain dead providers, I was
hoping we could get the listing removed.

Examples of things we do to stop outgoing spam from free accounts

1. We limit the number of accounts that can be signed up from any particular
IP per day
2. Every week, we analyse all signups in the last week, and look for common
patterns (names, passwords, ips, etc) and close clearly duplicate accounts.
This catches a significant amount of multi-signup fraud/spamming attempts
3. We spam check all outgoing email and immediately stop any email that's
obviously spammy
4. If any account is reported as sending spam, we have a script that checks
for "similar" accounts and lock them as well where obviously related to the
first account

All up, I think we're doing a good job at stopping outgoing spam, especially
at the moment compared to the big providers (eg gmail, hotmail, yahoo).
Everyday, I see more and more spam from those systems clearly being sent
through their web interfaces via bot software
(http://blog.fastmail.fm/?p=599).

It's bloody frustrating that they don't seem to be doing much about the
problem, and additionally, I've found that their IPs don't seem to be listed
on the "free" listing at your site either, which seems to leave us at a
disadvantage. For example, after doing some sends, I found email going
through these hotmail/gmail/yahoo IPs, and none of them are listed at
five-ten as "free".

bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.206]
bay0-omc2-s37.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.173]

py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]
py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]

web55006.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.140]
web55013.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.147]

Anyway, hope that you consider our request and realise that we are trying to
provide a legitimate email service with strong checks in place to avoid
abuse.

Regards

Rob

digp · 1 May 2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

As some people have noticed, five-ten-sg (http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php) have listed all messagingengine.com ip's in their "free" range. In general that shouldn't be a problem, but unfortunately some systems seem to have a dumb setup to use any listing on five-ten-sg as a "block" event. *sigh*

I've sent a message to the maintainer to try and get delisted. Since it appears to be a pretty privately run RBL, there's no guarantee of course. Anyway, if anyone knows more about who runs the list or know someone who might be able to provide some influence, it would be appreciated.

Rob

---

To: blackhole18@five-ten-sg.com
Subject: Listing of 66.111.4.0/24 (messagingengine.com) as free

Hi

A few months ago, you started listing messagingengine.com IPs as "free"
(Free mail providers). Unfortunately a bunch of brain dead providers out
there seem to use *any* listing on five-ten as a "block" event, which means
that emails to various places from our users have been getting blocked.
While it's true that we do provide free accounts through FastMail.FM, we do
some pretty strict limiting, and given the brain dead providers, I was
hoping we could get the listing removed.

Examples of things we do to stop outgoing spam from free accounts

1. We limit the number of accounts that can be signed up from any particular
IP per day
2. Every week, we analyse all signups in the last week, and look for common
patterns (names, passwords, ips, etc) and close clearly duplicate accounts.
This catches a significant amount of multi-signup fraud/spamming attempts
3. We spam check all outgoing email and immediately stop any email that's
obviously spammy
4. If any account is reported as sending spam, we have a script that checks
for "similar" accounts and lock them as well where obviously related to the
first account

All up, I think we're doing a good job at stopping outgoing spam, especially
at the moment compared to the big providers (eg gmail, hotmail, yahoo).
Everyday, I see more and more spam from those systems clearly being sent
through their web interfaces via bot software
(http://blog.fastmail.fm/?p=599).

It's bloody frustrating that they don't seem to be doing much about the
problem, and additionally, I've found that their IPs don't seem to be listed
on the "free" listing at your site either, which seems to leave us at a
disadvantage. For example, after doing some sends, I found email going
through these hotmail/gmail/yahoo IPs, and none of them are listed at
five-ten as "free".

bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.206]
bay0-omc2-s37.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.173]

py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]
py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]

web55006.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.140]
web55013.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.147]

Anyway, hope that you consider our request and realise that we are trying to
provide a legitimate email service with strong checks in place to avoid
abuse.

Regards

Rob

sue the beggars.

kproth · 20 Oct 2007, 10:16 AM

*bump* -- I just had an outgoing email blocked due to FastMail's listing within blackholes.five-ten-sg.com's "free" category. Did they ever respond to your request from earlier this year?

If they can't be reached, is it even possible to consider sending "free" users' email from a separate out-going IP?

InResponse · 20 Oct 2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

As some people have noticed, five-ten-sg (http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php) have listed all messagingengine.com ip's in their "free" range...

... Anyway, if anyone knows more about who runs the list or know someone who might be able to provide some influence, it would be appreciated.

Rob

From betterwhois.com:

Code:

   Registrar Name....: REGISTER.COM, INC.
   Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
   Registrar Homepage: www.register.com 

   Domain Name: five-ten-sg.com

      Created on..............: Thu, Apr 20, 1995
      Expires on..............: Wed, Apr 21, 2010
      Record last updated on..: Thu, May 10, 2007

   Administrative Contact:
      510 Software Group
      Carl Byington
      P.O. Box 1293 
      Blue Jay, CA 92317
      US
      Phone: 909-546-4700
      Email: carl@five-ten-sg.com

   Technical Contact:
      Customer Requested Lock
      Carl Byington
      PO Box 1293 
      Blue Jay, CA 92317
      US
      Phone: 909-546-4700
      Email: carl@five-ten-sg.com

   DNS Servers:

   ns1.five-ten-sg.com
   ns3.five-ten-sg.com
   ns.five-ten-sg.com

google search:

Code:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_tkv5d 

510 Software Group
27316 Pinewood Dr, Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352, United States  

Phone: (909) 546-4700

SIC: Prepackaged Software

Line of Business: Prepackaged Software Services

robmueller · 22 Oct 2007, 04:15 PM

Never heard from them, and concluded it wasn't worthwhile. Anyone using five-ten-sg has bigger problems...

http://stats.dnsbl.com/fiveten.html

It blocks more non-spam than it does spam!

Rob

27 Apr 2007, 06:59 PM	#1
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	five-ten-sg As some people have noticed, five-ten-sg (http://www.five-ten-sg.com/blackhole.php) have listed all messagingengine.com ip's in their "free" range. In general that shouldn't be a problem, but unfortunately some systems seem to have a dumb setup to use any listing on five-ten-sg as a "block" event. sigh I've sent a message to the maintainer to try and get delisted. Since it appears to be a pretty privately run RBL, there's no guarantee of course. Anyway, if anyone knows more about who runs the list or know someone who might be able to provide some influence, it would be appreciated. Rob --- To: blackhole18@five-ten-sg.com Subject: Listing of 66.111.4.0/24 (messagingengine.com) as free Hi A few months ago, you started listing messagingengine.com IPs as "free" (Free mail providers). Unfortunately a bunch of brain dead providers out there seem to use any listing on five-ten as a "block" event, which means that emails to various places from our users have been getting blocked. While it's true that we do provide free accounts through FastMail.FM, we do some pretty strict limiting, and given the brain dead providers, I was hoping we could get the listing removed. Examples of things we do to stop outgoing spam from free accounts 1. We limit the number of accounts that can be signed up from any particular IP per day 2. Every week, we analyse all signups in the last week, and look for common patterns (names, passwords, ips, etc) and close clearly duplicate accounts. This catches a significant amount of multi-signup fraud/spamming attempts 3. We spam check all outgoing email and immediately stop any email that's obviously spammy 4. If any account is reported as sending spam, we have a script that checks for "similar" accounts and lock them as well where obviously related to the first account All up, I think we're doing a good job at stopping outgoing spam, especially at the moment compared to the big providers (eg gmail, hotmail, yahoo). Everyday, I see more and more spam from those systems clearly being sent through their web interfaces via bot software (http://blog.fastmail.fm/?p=599). It's bloody frustrating that they don't seem to be doing much about the problem, and additionally, I've found that their IPs don't seem to be listed on the "free" listing at your site either, which seems to leave us at a disadvantage. For example, after doing some sends, I found email going through these hotmail/gmail/yahoo IPs, and none of them are listed at five-ten as "free". bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.206] bay0-omc2-s37.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.173] py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176] py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179] web55006.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.140] web55013.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.147] Anyway, hope that you consider our request and realise that we are trying to provide a legitimate email service with strong checks in place to avoid abuse. Regards Rob

20 Oct 2007, 10:16 AM	#3
kproth Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 7	bump bump -- I just had an outgoing email blocked due to FastMail's listing within blackholes.five-ten-sg.com's "free" category. Did they ever respond to your request from earlier this year? If they can't be reached, is it even possible to consider sending "free" users' email from a separate out-going IP?

22 Oct 2007, 04:15 PM	#5
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Never heard from them, and concluded it wasn't worthwhile. Anyone using five-ten-sg has bigger problems... http://stats.dnsbl.com/fiveten.html It blocks more non-spam than it does spam! Rob