Deleted in Thunderbird, only crossed out in IMAP, help!?

dangoodman · 17 Jun 2006, 01:10 AM

I had this same problem a couple of years ago when I began using a Netscape mail client, so I know there's a solution, but I can't remember what it is.

I went in and cleaned up a rat's nest of old junk mail in my wife's email account, using Thunderbird for convenience.

When I went back in through IMAP, there were all the deleted emails, showing with a strikethrough, and still counting against the quota. WAY too many to want to have to go through again and manually mark them for deletion.

Does anyone know what the secret Vulcan handshake is to grab all of them at once and get rid of them? They obviously have a distinguishing characteristic from the ones that are keepers, but the trick is to find a way to mark them for permanent deletion.

Your help will be GREATLY appreciated, as I am in the middle of a hunt for a new job, and already spent too much time trying to be a nice guy...I need to find a quick way to get this over and get out.

Thanks...

JasonWard · 17 Jun 2006, 01:19 AM

When you quit Thunderbird it should sort the mess out for you itself. But it seems from your post its not

perhaps there is an option somewhere in Thunderbird you need to set.

If not just select "Purge Deleted" from the drop down menu in Fastmail.

Jason

dangoodman · 17 Jun 2006, 05:41 AM

This is the OP... when I came back a few hours later, after my connection had been dropped due to inactivity, and then logged back in, everything had cleared up.

I once heard it said that patience was a mother of a virtue...

Thanks for the suggestions. Don't know why the purge deleted option didn't jump out at me, other than lack of sleep and excessive multitasking. But the existence of this forum, and the people on it, as well as the quality of the fastmail service itself (and of course kudos to Thunderbird as well) are all bright spots on the Web.

Thanks to all that I mentioned, but especially to you, Jason.

cool:

Dan G.

IMustBeStupid · 29 Jun 2006, 06:36 AM

That is the normal behavior of most/all IMAP clients; the messages are *marked* for deletion but they aren't deleted until you end your session.

I suppose this is so you can undelete in case you deleted something unintentionally.

DrStrabismus · 29 Jun 2006, 08:04 AM

It's because traditional IMAP clients don't use a trashcan, and IMAP doesn't support a move operation. In a traditional IMAP client you mark messages as deleted, and then when you are sure you don't want them you expunge the mailbox.

Nowdays most people aren't familiar with that model, so a lot of clients implement trashcan deletion by copying the messages to trash, marking the originals as deleted and then hiding them. The final expunge is handle differently in different clients.

claven · 30 Jun 2006, 03:25 PM

I've been able to force the purge process to run by going to the File menu in Thunderbird and choosing the Compact Folders option.

JRobert · 9 Nov 2006, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by claven
I've been able to force the purge process to run by going to the File menu in Thunderbird and choosing the Compact Folders option.

(I know this is way late but this seems like a good place for this information - since I just installed Thunderbird, had the same problem, and this is most recent thread my search turned up).

That worked, but I didn't want to have to remember to do it each time. I found this setting in TB that automates it on exit:

Go to: Tools | options | advanced | Config Editor
In the Filter window, type "exit". The long list of configs will shrink to three configs containing the word exit. One of them says:

Code:

mail.imap.cleanup_inbox_on_exit

Double-click it to change its value to TRUE. Close the config-editor window, and click OK on the dialog.

From now on, whenever TB exits, it should clean out the messages you've marked for deletion.

-jeff-

BinaryTB · 9 Nov 2006, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Go to: Tools | options | advanced | Config Editor
In the Filter window, type "exit". The long list of configs will shrink to three configs containing the word exit. One of them says:

Code:

mail.imap.cleanup_inbox_on_exit

Double-click it to change its value to TRUE. Close the config-editor window, and click OK on the dialog.

Or you could just go to your account settings and check the box that says:

"Clean up ("Expunge") Inbox on Exit"

Which does the same thing as the config option.

drchadwick · 10 Nov 2006, 12:45 AM

OS X Mail always leaves the messages sitting in there. When I log on to the web interface, I have to click "purge deleted" every time. Sort of annoying -- maybe it'll be fixed in Leopard.

JRobert · 10 Nov 2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spooon69
Or you could just go to your account settings and check the box that says:

"Clean up ("Expunge") Inbox on Exit"

Which does the same thing as the config option.

Now, that would be easier - I missed that. However, now I'm confused. If these were truly identical, I would expect to find the account-settings option you mentioned, set, once I had changed it in the config editor. Yet when I go to account settings and look, the option remains unset. And T-bird is still expunging my inbox on exit. ??

-jeff-

BinaryTB · 10 Nov 2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JRobert
Now, that would be easier - I missed that. However, now I'm confused. If these were truly identical, I would expect to find the account-settings option you mentioned, set, once I had changed it in the config editor. Yet when I go to account settings and look, the option remains unset. And T-bird is still expunging my inbox on exit. ??

Wow, that is weird. I would think it's a GUI bug, maybe there is a mozilla bug open for it?

Or actually, you know what, the config option is probably a Global setting while the option in the Account GUI settings is per account. That would actually make sense. Guess it may not be a bug after all.

Riz Day · 11 Nov 2006, 08:53 AM

Mac Mail will delete items properly but only on exit but you do have go to the -

'accounts' setup and set
'Trash - permanently erase deleted messages when:'
to 'quitting mail'

It's not perfect for me though is my mac is usually on or in sleep and I rarely quit the mail app.

riz

JRobert · 13 Nov 2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spooon69
Or actually, you know what, the config option is probably a Global setting while the option in the Account GUI settings is per account. That would actually make sense. Guess it may not be a bug after all.

Good call! That would explain it. And since I've only defined one account defined in Tbird so far, so I wouldn't notice the difference.

-jeff-

astral · 6 Sep 2007, 02:38 PM

Here's a radical idea:

Fastmail web UI option to NOT SHOW deleted messages. Do not show them crossed out. Just don't show them.

Maybe auto-purge later, or whatever. I have an IMAP client that I can't get to run a purge. Other IMAP clients I connect with do not show deleted messages. It's really only the Fastmail web UI that shows them. Why? They are deleted, I don't want to see them.

robmueller · 7 Sep 2007, 01:11 PM

The main reason it shows them is because they are not "expunged", which means they still take quote space!

If you hide them, you'll get people saying "I can't see any emails in any folders, but it's saying I'm still using 10M of quota space. Why?"

Magically hiding things that are really there is always slightly fraught with danger. However it is a useful idea as an option.

Rob

17 Jun 2006, 01:10 AM	#1
dangoodman Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: southern NJ, outside of Philly Posts: 8	Deleted in Thunderbird, only crossed out in IMAP, help!? I had this same problem a couple of years ago when I began using a Netscape mail client, so I know there's a solution, but I can't remember what it is. I went in and cleaned up a rat's nest of old junk mail in my wife's email account, using Thunderbird for convenience. When I went back in through IMAP, there were all the deleted emails, showing with a strikethrough, and still counting against the quota. WAY too many to want to have to go through again and manually mark them for deletion. Does anyone know what the secret Vulcan handshake is to grab all of them at once and get rid of them? They obviously have a distinguishing characteristic from the ones that are keepers, but the trick is to find a way to mark them for permanent deletion. Your help will be GREATLY appreciated, as I am in the middle of a hunt for a new job, and already spent too much time trying to be a nice guy...I need to find a quick way to get this over and get out. Thanks...

17 Jun 2006, 05:41 AM	#3
dangoodman Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: southern NJ, outside of Philly Posts: 8	Purge Deleted not necessary, just patience... This is the OP... when I came back a few hours later, after my connection had been dropped due to inactivity, and then logged back in, everything had cleared up. I once heard it said that patience was a mother of a virtue... Thanks for the suggestions. Don't know why the purge deleted option didn't jump out at me, other than lack of sleep and excessive multitasking. But the existence of this forum, and the people on it, as well as the quality of the fastmail service itself (and of course kudos to Thunderbird as well) are all bright spots on the Web. Thanks to all that I mentioned, but especially to you, Jason. cool: Dan G.

29 Jun 2006, 08:04 AM	#5
DrStrabismus The "e" in e-mail Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,804	It's because traditional IMAP clients don't use a trashcan, and IMAP doesn't support a move operation. In a traditional IMAP client you mark messages as deleted, and then when you are sure you don't want them you expunge the mailbox. Nowdays most people aren't familiar with that model, so a lot of clients implement trashcan deletion by copying the messages to trash, marking the originals as deleted and then hiding them. The final expunge is handle differently in different clients. Last edited by DrStrabismus : 29 Jun 2006 at 08:09 AM.

17 Jun 2006, 01:19 AM	#2
JasonWard Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 834	When you quit Thunderbird it should sort the mess out for you itself. But it seems from your post its not perhaps there is an option somewhere in Thunderbird you need to set. If not just select "Purge Deleted" from the drop down menu in Fastmail. Jason

29 Jun 2006, 06:36 AM	#4
IMustBeStupid Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 8	That is the normal behavior of most/all IMAP clients; the messages are marked for deletion but they aren't deleted until you end your session. I suppose this is so you can undelete in case you deleted something unintentionally.

30 Jun 2006, 03:25 PM	#6
claven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 184	I've been able to force the purge process to run by going to the File menu in Thunderbird and choosing the Compact Folders option.

10 Nov 2006, 12:45 AM	#9
drchadwick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 179	OS X Mail always leaves the messages sitting in there. When I log on to the web interface, I have to click "purge deleted" every time. Sort of annoying -- maybe it'll be fixed in Leopard.

11 Nov 2006, 08:53 AM	#12
Riz Day Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 28	Mac Mail will delete items properly but only on exit but you do have go to the - 'accounts' setup and set 'Trash - permanently erase deleted messages when:' to 'quitting mail' It's not perfect for me though is my mac is usually on or in sleep and I rarely quit the mail app. riz

6 Sep 2007, 02:38 PM	#14
astral Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 44	Here's a radical idea: Fastmail web UI option to NOT SHOW deleted messages. Do not show them crossed out. Just don't show them. Maybe auto-purge later, or whatever. I have an IMAP client that I can't get to run a purge. Other IMAP clients I connect with do not show deleted messages. It's really only the Fastmail web UI that shows them. Why? They are deleted, I don't want to see them.

7 Sep 2007, 01:11 PM	#15
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	The main reason it shows them is because they are not "expunged", which means they still take quote space! If you hide them, you'll get people saying "I can't see any emails in any folders, but it's saying I'm still using 10M of quota space. Why?" Magically hiding things that are really there is always slightly fraught with danger. However it is a useful idea as an option. Rob