Gmail not receiving your own mailing list posts?

[xmailer]

Originally posted by drew
But my yahoogroups group are not on googlegroups.

Yes, I assume because they're newer and much less popular, Googlegroups has much fewer groups in subject areas of interest to me.

[xmailer]

Having just revisted the google groups interface again for the first time in awhile, and encountering a number of still-unfixed bugs, I have to say that, not only is the "selection" of groups still much more limited, but Yahoo Groups is still vastly superior to Google Groups overall, the latter still having a long way to go to catch up IMHO.

[David]

If an email discussion list (or group) subscription is set so that you receive copies of your own posts, Google certainly should not delete these, even if they are in your sent folder.

I am not just talking google groups I am talking about all mailing lists and groups.

Fastmail delete messages with duplicate id's but they don't delete messages sent back from lists. I am thinking that the messaage id is different as it has been sent back by a different SMTP server.

[xmailer]

Exactly. But although I can't say I've thoroughly tested it, or at least not lately, it's been my impresion in the past that Gmail doesn't allow into the Inbox any messages which it "sees" as being sent from oneself, even if it's the user's specific intent to send a message TO him or herself.

Again, I just see this as one of many examples of Google's attempting to force everyone to do things their way rather than giving the user an optimal degree of control over his/her own email, which makes Google appear rather arrogant to me. Although I'm sure arrogance isn't so much the motivating factor as is simple financial greed. But of course, Google will never do "evil" -- at least not by their own definition of the term.

[ultra]

Agreed on it not being ideal but I'm not convinced about any financial aspect, but 'doing it the way we want' might be a case of Google learning it from Microsoft, which also has had some mixed up ideas on what I might want from an application

This not sending back to the sender is not the only thing I dislike - for example the way all messages are held by thread {subject line}... eg I happen to order services {in my case registering or renewing domains} but unless the subject line includes the individual item name then all the incoming messages are 'lumped' together.

If I wanted to tag them individually {to be able to look at all items for a particular client} then it fails to let me do what is easy with folders (on Runbox and Fastmail, etc)

I've not yet looked into downloading the items with POP - I'm using a mix of OSX, Knoppix and Windows XP, so web-based generally works very well for me - I suppose I could try (*) to import the Gmail messages into Runbox instead !!

(*) I expect most 'drag mail in using POP3' to work on port 110, not the 'secure' one used by Gmail

[xmailer]

Originally Posted by ultra

Agreed on it not being ideal but I'm not convinced about any financial aspect, but 'doing it the way we want' might be a case of Google learning it from Microsoft, which also has had some mixed up ideas on what I might want from an application

If their scouring of users' messages in order to "target" their advertising isn't enough to convince you that everything "about" gmail is based on financial motives, then I guess I'm not sure what would be.

(Not saying that financial motives are necessarily "evil" in and of themselves, of course, although they aren't necessarily "good" either, and certainly it's a motive which has inspired more than one "evil" act -- the most famous quotation I might cite in this context possibly being off-limits here, in violating the forum rule against religious discussion )

[xmailer]

Or maybe its just Yahoo they don't like. Anyway, I received the following message, purporting to be from Yahoo Groups customer service, through one of my Yahoo groups today:

From Yahoo Groups customer service:
~~~~~
Gmail Non-Delivery Issues

We've had reports that some users with Gmail accounts have not been
receiving Groups mail since approximately March 14, 2007. This was a
difficult issue to diagnose, because we were able to replicate the
issue with some, but not all, of our test Gmail accounts. Some of us
were missing Groups messages in our Gmail accounts, some of us were
receiving them as usual. We appreciate those of you who wrote in
detail about the problems your members were having on the Groups
Technical Issues board and in email to Customer Care. Having detailed
information helps us get to the bottom of issues faster.

The problem appears to be on Gmail's end. We have gotten in touch with
the Gmail team and are working to resolve this issue. We'll post an
update when this has been resolved.

[drew]

To my surprice this is not a clear cut thing.

I have not tested emaillists but I tested to send from my gmail account while on line to my safe-mail.net account and then that email got popped by gmail to gmail and that one got popped down to my harddisk. That kept everything intact despite same username at both.

If that would work even for yahoo me have no idea about. I will not test it either cause me not active in those yahoogroups, they are for real scientists and me only interested in the topics they talk about. natural science stuff. Way above my capacity to contribute to.

So gmail don't always delete what they sent out and when that one comes back in .

Maybe it is very different if it arrives the usual way. This one got popped using the inherit gmail fetch.

Would that help if you want to set up such a thing. That you could fetch them instead of letting them just arrive? Using another account?

Safe-mai.net is not a good choice though cause it has only 3 meg to fill.

[Camille]

Wanted to add to this discussion. I'm using gmail with several yahoogroup mailinglists. Haven't experienced any problems before with receiving my own emails but lately that's changed.
If you check with the help forums a lot of people have been complaining about this (yes, people with yahoo email are even experiencing this problem).

When I send an email to a mailinglist from my email client/webmail, I don't get a copy back. But when I send directly from the yahoogroup interface, I get it quick and fine. This has been happening since December for me, so far yahoo's answer is that they're looking into it.

I don't think it's right for them to blame it on gmail.

[xmailer]

Originally Posted by Camille

I don't think it's right for them to blame it on gmail.

I'm not sure why it would be "wrong" for them to blame it on Gmail if in fact their investigation has led them to believe that the fault lies on Gmail's end, or possibly partly on Gmail's end. Of course "scapegoating" Gmail, "passng the buck" as it were, if the fault might be entirely on their own end would be a diffrerent matter. But I wouldn't assume that there couldn't be some fault at both ends. I certainly consider neither Gmail or Yahoo incapable of error or problems with their systems, as it seems there've been plenty of examples of same with both.services/companies.

One problem which clearly seems to be manifest at Yahoo's end just today, for example, is that there is currently a widespread incidence of duplicate copies of the same message being sent to group members. That this is clearly a problem at Yahoo's end is evidenced by the fact that these duplicate messages appear within the "digest" format of these groups' messages as well as with individually sent posts, including with at least one or two of groups of which I'm a member.

But I personally consider neither Gmail or Yahoo as "the good guys" or "the bad guys", but rather I see it more as a matter of which "bad guy" may be more culpable in a given instance.

[Rip Slagcheek]

GMail is having issues I've never seen before. I have 2 accounts - 1 for a mailing list backup, and 1 for personal, semi-public use. Mail to both of these addresses is bouncing, not simply that from Yahoo Groups. Seems intermittent as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't have noticed it as quickly if YahooGroups hadn't sent a bouncing notification to me.

[xmailer]

Have you been able to obtain an error message associated with these bounces? I know that may not be easy to determine if the bounces are apparently at random and you're not receiving the non-delivery mesages directly yourself. However, if Yahoo discontinues sending group messages to your address, when a test message is sent to verify that the address is "functioning" again, it's generally possible to get at least some information as to the (ostensible) basis for the bounce from Yahoo by clicking on a link on the page you're brought to upon "reverifyng" your address.

[xmailer]

Originally Posted by xmailer

One problem which clearly seems to be manifest at Yahoo's end just today, for example, is that there is currently a widespread incidence of duplicate copies of the same message being sent to group members. That this is clearly a problem at Yahoo's end is evidenced by the fact that these duplicate messages appear within the "digest" format of these groups' messages as well as with individually sent posts, including with at least one or two of groups of which I'm a member.

It's wandering a bit off-topic in this forum, but since I already mentioned it here, this problem only seems to be getting worse. In the two groups whose messages I read most regularly, in digest format, almost every message is now being sent with duplicate copies and the number of duplicates of each is increasing. Someone in one of the groups commented that it may have something to do with Yahoo's updgrade to the groups, but I'm not sure if it's a fact that they're currently upgrading something or if that was just speculation. In any case, it looks more like they're royally screwing up rather than upgrading anything.

[war17]

Today my YahooGroup received 6 copies of each message, and none of the sender used Gmail, but other email accounts.

[Rip Slagcheek]

Originally Posted by xmailer

However, if Yahoo discontinues sending group messages to your address, when a test message is sent to verify that the address is "functioning" again, it's generally possible to get at least some information as to the (ostensible) basis for the bounce from Yahoo by clicking on a link on the page you're brought to upon "reverifyng" your address.

One problem there. The YahooGroups stuff is one I use without a Yahoo account (I subscribed from the email address but never created an account,) so I can't login to check. The original message I received said something like "if you're getting this, messages aren't bouncing anymore." I was able to re-enable the address for group messages, so that's fixed. I haven't tested it on my own but someone who sent to my semi-public (other) gmail address received an undeliverable message, as if my account didn't exist.

Seems fine now. Luckily all my important messages are sent to my domain addresses.

If I can find out more information, I'll post it.