Let me take care of spam

Bagnet · 17 Sep 2019, 08:52 PM

I notice that more and more e-mail hosts and services don't give you the option of completely turn off spam filtering.
I find that if I'm paying for something I should have all options available.
I'm toying with the idea of POP3 with my domain, download all e-mails, delete them from the server, backup locally, spam filter locally, organize by folders and filters locally, maybe even virus scanning only locally too.
Which hosts (bluehost, namecheap etc.) and/or services (fastmail, runbox etc.) would offer me what I'm looking for?

Thanks.

TenFour · 17 Sep 2019, 09:01 PM

Why? Just asking for trouble doing that. Today's phishing and other malicious emails are so good you need big-tech spam protection, IMHO. Also, just a lot of extra work for you. What is your time worth?

Bagnet · 17 Sep 2019, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

Why?

That's not the answer to my question.

Folio · 17 Sep 2019, 11:59 PM

Fastmail and Runbox offer the option to turn off spam filtering, but I don't know if (or how much) mail they reject before it hits the spam filters. If you really want to be certain that no messages are being silently discarded, I suspect you would need to run your own mail server.

Bagnet · 18 Sep 2019, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folio

Fastmail and Runbox offer the option to turn off spam filtering, but I don't know if (or how much) mail they reject before it hits the spam filters. If you really want to be certain that no messages are being silently discarded, I suspect you would need to run your own mail server.

I thought it'd be something like that, an initial filtering you simply can't avoid.

Berenburger · 18 Sep 2019, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagnet

Which hosts (bluehost, namecheap etc.) and/or services (fastmail, runbox etc.) would offer me what I'm looking for?

Tuffmail

Bagnet · 18 Sep 2019, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berenburger

Tuffmail

Didn't know that one, thanks.

jarland · 23 Sep 2019, 01:02 AM

The reasons are many, but here are a couple:

1. The more spam you successfully receive, the more your email address will be distributed on spam lists, the more spam you will end up receiving as a result. No matter how large their storage array, emails take up space and especially maildir based systems take up inodes for every email. The exponentially increasing flood of spam over time, combined across multiple accounts (many of which receive them at exponentially faster rates than others but would still keep filtering disabled) causes a crisis for sysadmins that can lead to effectively DOS attacking SMTP servers, slow disk I/O, and increased overhead costs at the hands of a third party.

2. Forwarding consistency / IP reputation. People are often confused by inconsistency in what they receive and what is forwarded, but if you take a situation where exponentially increasing spam occurs and then it doesn't all forward, many will wonder if they can trust the forwarding to be consistent. If you do forward it all, your IPs start getting blacklisted at Google, Yahoo, etc. Keep in mind that Google is more likely to view an email as spam for having been forwarded, even when it might have landed in your inbox if sent directly to your Gmail account. If not relevant for you, still relevant for a neighbor that forwards to Google (of which I assure you, you have plenty).

Now it's important to note that not everyone fits into these, but when you're working in an environment that hosts hundreds, thousands, or more users then you really only need a few that do experience this to force a situation where you absolutely have to do this at a global level because you can't predict who it will happen to next, and you can't subject all of your users to the poor decisions of either other customers or third parties who want to send them spam.

There are people out there who can have a catchall with no spam filtering and get almost no spam. Some of them will start getting flooded with spam any day now, at such a rate that they might not even be able to receive legitimate emails due to reasonable connection limits. How do you know if you're that next person? You don't, until you are.

This is why even companies that let you turn off spam filters most likely still have rules that they use to reject email. You can't disable it altogether and run an email service with any reasonable number of customers, for any reasonable amount of time.

Bagnet · 23 Sep 2019, 02:24 AM

@jarland

Thanks

hadaso · 24 Sep 2019, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folio

Fastmail and Runbox offer the option to turn off spam filtering, but I don't know if (or how much) mail they reject before it hits the spam filters. If you really want to be certain that no messages are being silently discarded, I suspect you would need to run your own mail server.

Rejecting is not the same as silently discarding.
I don't know about Runbox, but FastMail's filtering that cannot be turned off by the user (that is: it is happening before the recipient id known) is rejection. That means no email is lost: the sender knows the email wasn't sent. Further spam filtering in FastMail is based on email filtering rules, so you can completely disable spam filtering and you can replace them by your own filtering rules.

17 Sep 2019, 08:52 PM	#1
Bagnet Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 15	Let me take care of spam I notice that more and more e-mail hosts and services don't give you the option of completely turn off spam filtering. I find that if I'm paying for something I should have all options available. I'm toying with the idea of POP3 with my domain, download all e-mails, delete them from the server, backup locally, spam filter locally, organize by folders and filters locally, maybe even virus scanning only locally too. Which hosts (bluehost, namecheap etc.) and/or services (fastmail, runbox etc.) would offer me what I'm looking for? Thanks.

23 Sep 2019, 01:02 AM	#8
jarland Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 399 Representative of: MXRoute.com	The reasons are many, but here are a couple: 1. The more spam you successfully receive, the more your email address will be distributed on spam lists, the more spam you will end up receiving as a result. No matter how large their storage array, emails take up space and especially maildir based systems take up inodes for every email. The exponentially increasing flood of spam over time, combined across multiple accounts (many of which receive them at exponentially faster rates than others but would still keep filtering disabled) causes a crisis for sysadmins that can lead to effectively DOS attacking SMTP servers, slow disk I/O, and increased overhead costs at the hands of a third party. 2. Forwarding consistency / IP reputation. People are often confused by inconsistency in what they receive and what is forwarded, but if you take a situation where exponentially increasing spam occurs and then it doesn't all forward, many will wonder if they can trust the forwarding to be consistent. If you do forward it all, your IPs start getting blacklisted at Google, Yahoo, etc. Keep in mind that Google is more likely to view an email as spam for having been forwarded, even when it might have landed in your inbox if sent directly to your Gmail account. If not relevant for you, still relevant for a neighbor that forwards to Google (of which I assure you, you have plenty). Now it's important to note that not everyone fits into these, but when you're working in an environment that hosts hundreds, thousands, or more users then you really only need a few that do experience this to force a situation where you absolutely have to do this at a global level because you can't predict who it will happen to next, and you can't subject all of your users to the poor decisions of either other customers or third parties who want to send them spam. There are people out there who can have a catchall with no spam filtering and get almost no spam. Some of them will start getting flooded with spam any day now, at such a rate that they might not even be able to receive legitimate emails due to reasonable connection limits. How do you know if you're that next person? You don't, until you are. This is why even companies that let you turn off spam filters most likely still have rules that they use to reject email. You can't disable it altogether and run an email service with any reasonable number of customers, for any reasonable amount of time. Last edited by jarland : 23 Sep 2019 at 01:14 AM.

17 Sep 2019, 09:01 PM	#2
TenFour Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: USA Posts: 1,719	Why? Just asking for trouble doing that. Today's phishing and other malicious emails are so good you need big-tech spam protection, IMHO. Also, just a lot of extra work for you. What is your time worth?

17 Sep 2019, 11:59 PM	#4
Folio Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 77	Fastmail and Runbox offer the option to turn off spam filtering, but I don't know if (or how much) mail they reject before it hits the spam filters. If you really want to be certain that no messages are being silently discarded, I suspect you would need to run your own mail server.

23 Sep 2019, 02:24 AM	#9
Bagnet Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 15	@jarland Thanks