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Early Warning... If an email service has closed down or changed the services it offers, or if there are indications it is about to do so, post about it here.

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Old 11 Jul 2019, 06:05 AM   #16
communicant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janusz View Post
Why are you surprised? How can virus and/or spam filtering work without scanning the message content?

And what this has to do with EuMx having been partially down on 15 May (or at any other time)?
1) If you are using "content" obsessively and hyperliterally to mean anything about the message other than metadata, then there is no point in attempting to answer your oddly dyspeptic query. Common sense, however, would indicate that virus scanning, while of course it must "look" at the body of the message, does so on a purely technical level and is not performed on a linguistically "aware" level that is programmed to "understand" the meaning of the words and can be set to flag words with supposedly sexual connotations (or political ones, or anything else that those controlling the scan are interested in, to ferret out and suppress whatever is proscribed according to their Weltanschauung).

2) Since there was a current EuMx thread going, it seemed tidier simply to add to it (since the message in question originated there), rather than start a brand new thread. Why was this choice bothersome or annoying to you (as it is reasonable to assume it must have been, as your question clearly implies that my doing it this way was somehow irrelevant to the thread)?
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Old 12 Jul 2019, 05:06 PM   #17
janusz
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I'm in awe of the richness of your vocabulary, in multiple languages It's a pity though that you did not spend some time learning basing concepts of scanning for viruses and spam.

In the circumstances, I'll avail myself of this rather obscure feature of EMD.
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Old 14 Jul 2019, 12:51 AM   #18
communicant
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a plea for sanity and reason instead of sarcasm and mockery

It troubles me to post a personal note about a fellow member of the forum, and I hope that my doing so does not overly vex the moderators -- please try to regard it in parliamentary terms as a "point of personal privilege."

Janusz has announced that he is putting me on his "ignore" list (something which he could perfectly well have done in decorous silence if he wished to spare himself the pain which the mere existence of my posts in a thread apparently causes him, though of course no÷ne is forcing him at gunpoint to read them if he finds them so intolerably odious; but no, he had to announce to the forum at large that he was placing me on the "ignore" list so he would not even know that I had posted at all, like a bully on a playground proudly trumpeting his decision to send some object of scorn to Coventry), so he will not, of course, be seeing this message. I note, however, that his public announcement of his banishing me from his ken could have no practical purpose other than to indulge an unlovely impulse to share his mysterious scorn with others and to inflict insult and distress. I have encountered nothing like it since grade school -- all that was lacking was his dancing around me with thumbs in his ears, wiggling his other fingers and chanting "nyah-nyah-na-nyah-nyah" like a hostile ten-year-old.

What have I done to offend him? That is not a rhetorical question. I post this because I am asking the forum for an honest evaluation of the messages preceding his announcement of his forthcoming action -- is there anyone here who thinks that anything I wrote could reasonably be considered offensive to him, even at a stretch? He complains sarcastically about my vocabulary (a complaint which is further reminiscent of a cruel schoolboy who reflexively heaps abuse on any contemporary who exhibits the slightest literacy), and darkly refers to knowledge of "multiple languages," in an apparent effort to catalogue yet another sin.

Is there anything in my post in that thread that invited such a response? I literally cannot imagine what the man is talking about, except that he seems irrationally to resent my having posted at all in a EuMX thread he had started, apparently in some way that he finds insufficiently relevant to his original post.

Please, if any member of the forum finds his words and action justified, tell me. I want to know. It would be wonderful if one or more forum members expressed an opinion that he was out of line (and those posts he would indeed see -- or at least be aware of their existence -- as he would not yet have got around to blocking any members who wrote them), but if you would rather not step into the public arena in such a cause, please PM me, even if it is only to say that you have something to say to me, whereupon I'll PM you an email address where you can write to me even more privately.

For some unknown reason I seem to rub Janusz the wrong way and always have done, for ten years, ever since I joined this forum. It is his responsibility, however, as a presumably adult member of this forum, to contain his personal animadversions, especially when they are unjustified, and not inflict them on the forum at large (or indeed, for that matter, on their individual target in the first place). Indeed, I believe his behavior in this case merits a rebuke from the moderators, or even being banned or at least warned, but that is for others to determine. Life being as it is, however, it is probably I who will be banned or warned instead, for this post may perhaps be deemed an "insult" as forbidden in Edwin's rules, because I did not do as Janusz did and cloak a manifestation of childish and persistent hatred in a subtle and indirect mode of delivery.

As for the original merits of the topic, if Janusz believes that I misunderstand virus or spam scanning, then why not simply say so, and in the spirit of the forum educate me, instead of mounting a slyly indirect attack as part of a gratuitous announcement that he was blocking me?

My question boiled down to this: why should the appearance of an anatomical term (used clinically and not lasciviously) in the text of an email sent from EuMX, with a CC to an address at VFEmail, have caused that CC to be marked as spam when it arrived, and left traces in the headers that a Hungarian medical laboratory with a blocked IP, a credit reporting service, and another odd and shady entity had somehow been invoked along the way? And was it EuMX's or VFEmail's software that caused this to occur?

Those seem to me like eminently proper and acceptable questions to ask in a forum devoted to a discussion of matters pertaining to email. Instead of taking them up, however, Janusz chose to mock me for implied vanity about vocabulary, to make clear his general dislike and annoyance, and then announced to the world his decision to instruct the forum's machinery to make my future posts invisible to him, all without ever having replied to or taken up my original post in any way at all.

He has behaved appallingly, and I hope either the moderators or some member or members of the forum will tell him so. If not (or if I end up being tarred as the guilty party instead), then I shall know beyond doubt that the world has well and truly gone utterly and irretrievably mad.
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Old 14 Jul 2019, 02:46 AM   #19
walesrob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by communicant View Post
It troubles me to post a personal note about a fellow member of the forum, and I hope that my doing so does not overly vex the moderators -- please try to regard it in parliamentary terms as a "point of personal privilege."
The fellow member of the forum you are talking about does come across rude, and its the reason I've stop posting here, as he seems to take delight at being downright unhelpful. But then he comes back and states you are on his ignore list. And he tells us every time. I tried to make a joke on the Runbox forum, only for that member to come back with a sarcastic reply. No need for it at all. Totally uncalled for.

Take his advice, put him on ignore. He seems to have put everyone else on ignore, as he keeps telling us.

Last edited by walesrob : 14 Jul 2019 at 02:50 AM. Reason: spacing
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Old 14 Jul 2019, 03:22 AM   #20
janusz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walesrob View Post
. He seems to have put everyone else on ignore
No, not you (so far)
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Old 14 Jul 2019, 05:32 AM   #21
communicant
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So now he's spewing out direct threats. Moderators, PLEASE DO SOMETHING about this member. He is doing real harm to the forum.
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 08:39 AM   #22
Berenburger
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This all makes me . Janusz often has a sarcastic tone. I don't know why. I do appreciate his messages about Eumx and Runbox and respect him as an old and valued member of this forum. I hope he comes to understanding.
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 11:48 PM   #23
walesrob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berenburger View Post
This all makes me . Janusz often has a sarcastic tone. I don't know why. I do appreciate his messages about Eumx and Runbox and respect him as an old and valued member of this forum. I hope he comes to understanding.

I know this is going off-topic a bit and apologies for doing so, but the mods on this forum take the hands-off approach, of which I applaud, but there are simmering tensions underneath that need to be dealt with, otherwise we arrive at what we see today. Janusz has been allowed to get away with all sorts, and the lack of proactive moderation means he can say what he likes without any comeback, and so he continues to annoy people unchecked. There's no doubt that he provides valuable input to this forum, and long may he continue to do so, but he needs to chill and stop antagonising other members.



I live by the adage if you have nothing useful to say, shut it.
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Old 16 Jul 2019, 11:57 AM   #24
just1acc
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If we can't understand sarcasm or appreciate it, world will be a land of autobots. There is many more things in the world to get offended. The post of Hungarian Lab was really off topic in this thread.

Chill a little bit.
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Old 17 Jul 2019, 01:14 AM   #25
communicant
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1) There is witty sarcasm and there is sarcasm that is bitter, rude, uncalled for, irrelevant to the matter at hand, and clearly the result of personal animosity and nothing else. I leave it to the previous posters (and anyone with manners and a modicum of good sense) to decide whether the kind involved here was something one could or should "appreciate."

2) The supposedly "off topic" post was not about a "Hungarian Lab" (which was mentioned in passing), but was about a message sent from EumX being marked as spam because of the presence in the text of a single innocently used word. The thread did concern EuMx. The post may have been tangential, but not completely "off topic." Would you prefer a brand new thread for every post, with no effort to keep things even slightly tidy?

3) I do not need or appreciate being told to "chill." I am not that easily offended, but I certainly know gratuitous rudeness and terrible manners and the fruit of pointless grudges and ill temper when I see it. I don't tolerate that sort of behavior from ten-year-olds and I won't tolerate it from adults who act like ten-year-olds either. I see the tradition of always blaming the injured party is alive and well.

I send thanks to those earlier posters who understood and who said helpful things which I appreciated. It was sad to read that several do not post here any more because of this sort of thing. I feel the same way. Perhaps the mods should take note, or this forum is in even more trouble than is obvious already from the declining participation and other factors.
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Old 24 Jul 2019, 04:15 AM   #26
SideshowBob
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It doesn't appear to be due to the single word alone. The email also gets points for eumx being listed in a blocklist (apews.org) and there's a local score configured for the IP address. Presumably eumx has been sending a lot of spam to VFEmail.

There is no lab. ZRT simply means limited liability company and INVITECH MEGOLDASOK translates to Invitech Solutions - it's eumx's ISP.
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Old 24 Jul 2019, 07:12 AM   #27
TenFour
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General comment. I have found it is generally best to just ignore or block people you find disagreeable on the Internet. Simply not worth your time or blood pressure to get worked up about. Responding or arguing will do nothing except stoke the feelings on both sides. Best to just move on.
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Old 26 Jul 2019, 12:07 AM   #28
communicant
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General comment on "General Comment":

To ignore the posts of someone you find disagreeable is fine -- for one thing it takes considerable will power; for another, it is passive (in a good way), whereas electronically blocking someone or marking them to be ignored so you never even know their posts existed is passive-aggressive (and also a bit cowardly, since instead of testing your will power to ignore and not respond to something distasteful, you are using technology to spare you from even seeing it, so no test of will power is involved).

As for the "mens rea" (state of mind, a legal term -- I used the Latin legal term because foreign phrases are anathema to the member whose behavior sparked this conversation, even though he won't ever see this example), for him to crow before pressing the button about his decision to ignore someone and to revel in it in advance while making sure to inform its target (and all the rest of the forum as well) is not only passive-aggressive but downright nasty, and more than a little neurotic, or worse).

As for the "best just to move on" advice, I respectfully but strongly disagree. Applied broadly, such a philosophy would give a free pass to all misbehavers and misfeasors, in all areas of life, and in physical as well as verbal arenas. For example, if you are the victim of a "road rage" incident or a mugging on the street and the police caught the person responsible, what would be your reaction if they advised you to forget about it and "just to move on"? And so on. Turning the other cheek on principle may be fine for practicing Christians and their founder, but for most mortals it is not a practical way of responding to hostility or worse.

There is a time to speak up, and also a time when NOT speaking up is itself the wrong thing to do. One is under no obligation, legal, moral or otherwise, simply to overlook and absorb nasty behavior from someone who is behaving unpleasantly or irrationally or even dangerously. Do you also espouse pacifism as a philosophy? It is by no means self-evident that such a position is either superior to reasonable self-defense or even feasible most of the time. Alas, even for those with the saintly forebearance to turn the other cheek no matter what, the world does not make it easy or advisable (or always possible) to do so.
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Old 26 Jul 2019, 12:21 AM   #29
TenFour
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As for the "best just to move on" advice, I respectfully but strongly disagree.
You are welcome to do whatever you wish, but the Internet is awash in millions of trolls, bots, fake accounts, and other sorts of nonsense with the express goal of evoking emotional responses from us few real people trying to entertain ourselves or learn something. I have ignored my own advice before and always regretted it. There is simply no "self defense" that will work against the malevolent hordes on the Internet. Blocking someone is a perfectly reasonable response once you realize there is no converting this person, if it is a real person, or gaining anything from engaging it. "Ignore the trolls" is sound advice, IMHO.
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Old 27 Jul 2019, 01:31 AM   #30
communicant
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Blocking someone is a perfectly reasonable response once you realize there is no converting this person, if it is a real person, or gaining anything from engaging it. "Ignore the trolls" is sound advice, IMHO.
Just so we're clear, you are aware -- are you not? -- that you are recommending the actions taken by the person who blocked me, while seemingly advising me to do the blocking? Your message seems to imply (or could reasonably be taken to mean, though that is not my belief about what you meant) that *I* am the troll, and that therefore blocking me was perfectly reasonable. Your advice may be sound in the abstract, but applied in this particular instance, don't you see that you have reversed roles and gotten things backwards?
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