Windows XP v Vista - Page 4

**Shelded** · 22nd February 2008, 09:52 AM

It does seem a shame that software has to be so emotional. I use what suits me and what I'm familiar with but I don't really want to get on a soap box about it. I expect people just have different jobs requiring different tools.

I think of Mac and Windows as pretty faces of some sort

I think of linux as two cans of paint. (Paint your own face here.)
I have bought ready-made at this point. I just don't need to go there (yet? now? ever?).

theog · 22nd February 2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

At the scope level you are replying to, I think it doesn't apply at all. I don't know that enterprise is the audience here, and OP seemed to be running a pretty small budget. That's the context I am thinking of, individuals or SOHO.

Guess I was confused since in one of your other posts you go into "enterprise" businesses and the like. Thought you were talking on a different level... lol... sorry.

Yea, SOHO and private users normally get shafted when they don't do their research with technology... but then that is with any industry, not just technology... have to do your research.

robert@fm · 27th February 2008, 07:58 PM

I've just this minute got an instance of one of the things I hate about Vista; I just ripped one of my albums to hard drive (using Nero 8), and because the folder name Nero created included the artiste as well as the title, I tried to rename it to remove the artiste. Vista refuses to allow this, even when I attempt to do so as Administrator, despite the fact that it's one of my own folders!

(Under users\robert\music.)

Oh well, I suppose I'll have to reboot into XP (once I've logged-off from EMD of course) and rename it from there.

**Shelded** · 28th February 2008, 12:12 AM

That would irritate me. The only times that has been done on my Vista Business is when a file is in use. We will assume you rebooted to ensure nothing is using the file.

I have problems copying photos from Vista (an internal NTFS drive) to removable drive (FAT) and losing properties which Vista had added. Vista won't tell me what properties are being lost, so I can't make an informed decision. So now I have my portable drive formatted as NTFS so I don't lose the "properties" I didn't know the files had.

Merovingian · 28th February 2008, 01:17 AM

I don't use Vista or Linux, but a friend emailed this article to me, and I thought some might enjoy reading it:

Windows Vista, The best thing that ever happened to Linux?

(I know this is slightly OT from the OP, but this is the Off-Topic Lounge

)

rmns2bseen · 2nd March 2008, 11:54 AM

My own amateur opinion is that Vista will become more popular as time goes on. Linux probably won't benefit very much, because "Linux" is in effect an abstraction to denote a dizzying array of distros that leave most first-timers flummoxed as to what they should even use.

My own amateur advice is to buy a copy of XP. It runs fine on low-resource "legacy" systems, like mine.

theog · 4th March 2008, 07:01 AM

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882510-56.html

Seems Microsoft is getting vista in line with xp with lower prices for premium and ultimate.

The suggested price for Vista Ultimate drops to $219 from $299, while Home Premium falls to $129, from $159.

I've seen Premium available online (from reputable places like amazon) for under $100 and Ultimate for under $200. Business is around $180.

Eventually I'd like to see them do away with basic and business...

theog · 5th March 2008, 06:40 PM

Vista SP1 up to 86% faster

http://apcmag.com/8373/vista_sp1_up_to_86_faster

News you love to hear....

marcus0263 · 8th March 2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theog

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882510-56.html

Seems Microsoft is getting vista in line with xp with lower prices for premium and ultimate.

The suggested price for Vista Ultimate drops to $219 from $299, while Home Premium falls to $129, from $159.

I've seen Premium available online (from reputable places like amazon) for under $100 and Ultimate for under $200. Business is around $180.

Eventually I'd like to see them do away with basic and business...

Still incredibly overpriced for a substandard O/S, god what suckers people are. The business world openly rejects Vista for the garbage that it is, continually reporting home to MS, continually checking to see if you're licensed to run "premium" content media, etc. etc. etc.

Only sensible choice I see is one of two

1) Move to Linux or BSD
2) Get a Mac

For the "Linux is only for geek crowd" I've done converted a lot of people over to Linux, ages running from teens to my 80 year old father. Which I've been doing for the last 6 or so years, at least 90% have stuck with Linux. But if Linux or BSD is too big a leap at least have the since to go to a Mac.

kingofpenguins · 8th March 2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus0263

Still incredibly overpriced for a substandard O/S, god what suckers people are. The business world openly rejects Vista for the garbage that it is, continually reporting home to MS, continually checking to see if you're licensed to run "premium" content media, etc. etc. etc.

Only sensible choice I see is one of two

1) Move to Linux or BSD
2) Get a Mac

For the "Linux is only for geek crowd" I've done converted a lot of people over to Linux, ages running from teens to my 80 year old father. Which I've been doing for the last 6 or so years, at least 90% have stuck with Linux. But if Linux or BSD is too big a leap at least have the since to go to a Mac.

Finally someone in this thread gets some brains.

(

)

marcus0263 · 8th March 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofpenguins

Finally someone in this thread gets some brains.

(

)

<rant>
It's completely amazing how everyone thinks they "must have"

Windows $400
MS Office $400
Antivirus $50
CD burning $100
Adobe Suite $400
Maya (3D authoring) $1200 estimate
Visual Studio Pro $1200
Dreamweaver $398
etc
etc

Linux/BSD $0
OpenOffice/Abiword $0
Antivirus n/a
CD burning $0
The Gimp $0
Blender (3D authoring) $0
eclipse $0
Quanta $0
etc.
etc.

Now if people say it's not up to the quality of the the products ported to Windows, they really need to take the Red Pill ya know?

Question, why does the average joe blow home user need all the garbage of the Office Pro suite? Abiword, gnumberic work excellent for them. Now the standard corporate worker OpenOffice/Star Office is fits the bill excellent. Actually I've been using Open Office on my corporate workstation for a while now and it's excellent. But corporate is another subject, let's stick with the home user.

Only reason I see for MS at home is for gaming, but if you must have games just get a bloody Xbox and play them on your bigscreen HD TV you know?

Reality .......... </rant>

It's amazing how people are led around by the nose paying obscene amounts of money for a badly broken substandard platform.

**Shelded** · 8th March 2008, 12:56 PM

Hmmm, OP did mention linux, so I guess this is still on topic. Maybe it would seem more useful if you provided some details and links for a basic beginner. OP, if still reading, simply wanted to run Office 97 so I think the listed linux software is beyond scope.

As to whether Vista is substandard garbage reporting home and checking... etc. YMMV but all that is nonsense here. It works great, it's improved since I got it, and I paid $271 for all the software I need (don't forget that we Windows users can also locate free stuff). I've declared the negatives in this thread so I think I'm being fair about it.

The strongest competitor of any kind for Vista is Windows XP. There is little reason for business to move to Vista as long as they have an adequate security process around XP

The biggest negative with linux is that 'nobody' uses it. I know only one family acquainted with linux and they're primarily windows users. Computers is their trade so of course they mess with linux too.

marcus0263 · 8th March 2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

Hmmm, OP did mention linux, so I guess this is still on topic. Maybe it would seem more useful if you provided some details and links for a basic beginner. OP, if still reading, simply wanted to run Office 97 so I think the listed linux software is beyond scope.

As to whether Vista is substandard garbage reporting home and checking... etc. YMMV but all that is nonsense here. It works great, it's improved since I got it, and I paid $271 for all the software I need (don't forget that we Windows users can also locate free stuff). I've declared the negatives in this thread so I think I'm being fair about it.

The strongest competitor of any kind for Vista is Windows XP. There is little reason for business to move to Vista as long as they have an adequate security process around XP

The biggest negative with linux is that 'nobody' uses it. I know only one family acquainted with linux and they're primarily windows users. Computers is their trade so of course they mess with linux too.

People bring up Office 2008 or what ever, it's an ugly beast. I've got a neighbor always asking how to do what ever. I just tell her sorry, I don't use that mess

Anyway yeah I listed a broad spectrum to suit a variety of needs. But the basic home user wants/needs what?

Browse the web
Edit documents
Do spreadsheets
Home Budget/tax's
Listen to music
Rip music
Play DVD's
Burn DVD's

What's the need for spending an obscene amount of money and have to worry about the likes of "root kits"

Firefox or Opera
Abiword
Gnumeric
Moneydance
Amarok (also supports things like IPod's)
Grip
VNC
Gnome Baker, or even Nero ports both a 32 bit and 64 bit

That's just a start, for the non geek crowd I push them towards Linux Mint

I've assisted with converting a number of people over and they are very happy. But if that's not your cup of tea, get a Mac.

Seriously MS with that DRM infected garbage that they call Vista.....

Anyway in the business world it's just not that XP is suffecient, there are major architectural changes that have to be made to implement that piece of garbage. Not for the least the huge expense of having to make a substantial investment in new hardware due to the fact it's extremely bloated. MS Windows has always been bloated, but Vista takes it to a new level.

**Shelded** · 8th March 2008, 01:57 PM

I'm glad you've fairly looked at both sides.

For business the major architectural changes cause very little problem, it seems to me. I'm paying less for business computers now than 3 years ago, and there's twice as much RAM and CPU's in there. See, I assume we lose the old box and toss it instead of upgrade it. And that's what we always have done every three years. Of course the MS bloat requires this but we don't use old equipment even if it can run new software.

The Vista Business operating system costs almost the exact amount as XP Pro so there's little cost factor. Actually, Vista and XP seem to coexist fairly well, it's the business-specific applications which we may worry about. The worst thing I have experienced is Office 2007 -- the users don't adapt well.

Windows Vista Home Premium is making home users quite happy as long as they invest in adequate hardware. $500 does that right now, and that's about half what it was just a few years ago. OK, so linux can do it for less but when someone has a problem with linux they can't run just to any n'bor for help -- it will have to be you.

marcus0263 · 8th March 2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

I'm glad you've fairly looked at both sides.

For business the major architectural changes cause very little problem, it seems to me. I'm paying less for business computers now than 3 years ago, and there's twice as much RAM and CPU's in there. See, I assume we lose the old box and toss it instead of upgrade it. And that's what we always have done every three years. Of course the MS bloat requires this but we don't use old equipment even if it can run new software.

The Vista Business operating system costs almost the exact amount as XP Pro so there's little cost factor. Actually, Vista and XP seem to coexist fairly well, it's the business-specific applications which we may worry about. The worst thing I have experienced is Office 2007 -- the users don't adapt well.

Windows Vista Home Premium is making home users quite happy as long as they invest in adequate hardware. $500 does that right now, and that's about half what it was just a few years ago. OK, so linux can do it for less but when someone has a problem with linux they can't run just to any n'bor for help -- it will have to be you.

You assume that I don't look at both sides fairly

My assisting others with the converting from MS to Linux stemmed from always being called to fix their Windows machines. Needless to say this as decreased substantially since I've moved them over

I've been in the IT business for about 15 years now and the movement for corporate to move to Vista is next to none. The cost factor is substantial, don't believe me google is a wonderful tool.

Like I posted above the smart move is to either go with Linux, BSD or a Mac. The Mac Mini is pretty slick for the casual user you know

The FUD about Linux only for geeks is just that FUD. More and more people are using it and are very happy with it, when they find out they can pretty much do anything with it without having to take out a 2nd mortgage they love it even more.

But again if someone isn't ready for Linux or BSD, no one is more user friendly than Mac.

So have you defragged yet today

22nd February 2008, 09:52 AM	#46
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,842	the religious fervor (flavor) It does seem a shame that software has to be so emotional. I use what suits me and what I'm familiar with but I don't really want to get on a soap box about it. I expect people just have different jobs requiring different tools. I think of Mac and Windows as pretty faces of some sort I think of linux as two cans of paint. (Paint your own face here.) I have bought ready-made at this point. I just don't need to go there (yet? now? ever?).

28th February 2008, 12:12 AM	#49
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,842	That would irritate me. The only times that has been done on my Vista Business is when a file is in use. We will assume you rebooted to ensure nothing is using the file. I have problems copying photos from Vista (an internal NTFS drive) to removable drive (FAT) and losing properties which Vista had added. Vista won't tell me what properties are being lost, so I can't make an informed decision. So now I have my portable drive formatted as NTFS so I don't lose the "properties" I didn't know the files had. Last edited by Shelded : 8th March 2008 at 12:58 PM.

27th February 2008, 07:58 PM	#48
robert@fm The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,624	I've just this minute got an instance of one of the things I hate about Vista; I just ripped one of my albums to hard drive (using Nero 8), and because the folder name Nero created included the artiste as well as the title, I tried to rename it to remove the artiste. Vista refuses to allow this, even when I attempt to do so as Administrator, despite the fact that it's one of my own folders! (Under users\robert\music.) Oh well, I suppose I'll have to reboot into XP (once I've logged-off from EMD of course) and rename it from there.

28th February 2008, 01:17 AM	#50
Merovingian Master of the @ Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,547	I don't use Vista or Linux, but a friend emailed this article to me, and I thought some might enjoy reading it: Windows Vista, The best thing that ever happened to Linux? (I know this is slightly OT from the OP, but this is the Off-Topic Lounge )

2nd March 2008, 11:54 AM	#51
rmns2bseen Master of the @ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,418	My own amateur opinion is that Vista will become more popular as time goes on. Linux probably won't benefit very much, because "Linux" is in effect an abstraction to denote a dizzying array of distros that leave most first-timers flummoxed as to what they should even use. My own amateur advice is to buy a copy of XP. It runs fine on low-resource "legacy" systems, like mine.

4th March 2008, 07:01 AM	#52
theog = Permanently banned = Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: 1 Microsoft Way Posts: 2,121	http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882510-56.html Seems Microsoft is getting vista in line with xp with lower prices for premium and ultimate. The suggested price for Vista Ultimate drops to $219 from $299, while Home Premium falls to $129, from $159. I've seen Premium available online (from reputable places like amazon) for under $100 and Ultimate for under $200. Business is around $180. Eventually I'd like to see them do away with basic and business...

5th March 2008, 06:40 PM	#53
theog = Permanently banned = Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: 1 Microsoft Way Posts: 2,121	Vista SP1 up to 86% faster http://apcmag.com/8373/vista_sp1_up_to_86_faster News you love to hear....

8th March 2008, 12:56 PM	#57
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,842	Hmmm, OP did mention linux, so I guess this is still on topic. Maybe it would seem more useful if you provided some details and links for a basic beginner. OP, if still reading, simply wanted to run Office 97 so I think the listed linux software is beyond scope. As to whether Vista is substandard garbage reporting home and checking... etc. YMMV but all that is nonsense here. It works great, it's improved since I got it, and I paid $271 for all the software I need (don't forget that we Windows users can also locate free stuff). I've declared the negatives in this thread so I think I'm being fair about it. The strongest competitor of any kind for Vista is Windows XP. There is little reason for business to move to Vista as long as they have an adequate security process around XP The biggest negative with linux is that 'nobody' uses it. I know only one family acquainted with linux and they're primarily windows users. Computers is their trade so of course they mess with linux too.

8th March 2008, 01:57 PM	#59
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,842	I'm glad you've fairly looked at both sides. For business the major architectural changes cause very little problem, it seems to me. I'm paying less for business computers now than 3 years ago, and there's twice as much RAM and CPU's in there. See, I assume we lose the old box and toss it instead of upgrade it. And that's what we always have done every three years. Of course the MS bloat requires this but we don't use old equipment even if it can run new software. The Vista Business operating system costs almost the exact amount as XP Pro so there's little cost factor. Actually, Vista and XP seem to coexist fairly well, it's the business-specific applications which we may worry about. The worst thing I have experienced is Office 2007 -- the users don't adapt well. Windows Vista Home Premium is making home users quite happy as long as they invest in adequate hardware. $500 does that right now, and that's about half what it was just a few years ago. OK, so linux can do it for less but when someone has a problem with linux they can't run just to any n'bor for help -- it will have to be you.