Emails not getting to Hotmail

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 03:27 AM

I'm trying to configure a mail server and when i send mails to any hotmail account they won't get to my inbox, neither to my junk mail folder.....

However when i send them to Yahoo or Gmail, they get there fine...

my mail server isn't in a black list , i have a SPF, i don't know why this is happenning...can you give me some guidelines so my mail server will be able to send email to hotmail?

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 03:52 AM

http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_Message_Deletion
http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_SPF
http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_TempError

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 04:10 AM

this has been extremely helpful
so this means that SPF is useless
however, do you know a Sender ID wizard generator or something like that?

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 04:21 AM

I wouldn't put it that way.

Hotmail will use an SPF record just like they would a SenderID specific record (I think this is a bad idea, but it's what they do).

If your SPF record is correct and your messages pass (I am assuming that - up to you to check) then that means that from a Hotmail perspective your mail is spammy. They have tools you can sign up for to see what they classify as spam (I'm signed up, but I've never actually seen any spam show up - I also have a small, well screened userbase). Dig around in their information for Postmasters.

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 04:58 AM

I added this in my TXT Configuration of my domain ( which is where i used to put my SPF info )
“spf2.0/mfrom”

Do you think this would help?

when you say "They have tools you can sign up for to see what they classify as spam"

What kind of tools are you suggesting? Are these Hotmail tools?

Would you do me a favor and give me their names? I would REALLY REALLY REALLY APRECIATE THAT!!

I've checked and my messages pass....the only error i get is that i don't have a postermaster email , and abuse email...don't know if this make a BIG difference or not...

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 05:06 AM

What's the domain? I'll look at your record.

Hotmail links:

http://postmaster.msn.com/
http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 05:17 AM

Ok I have 2 domains, one LIVE and one that I'm using for testing purposes

The one i have LIVE is: epibiz.com

The one i have for test is: pdmweb.net

I added the Sender ID “spf2.0/mfrom” in pdmweb.net

THANK YOU FOR ALL THIS VALUABLE HELP!!!

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 05:30 AM

Adding just what you added doesn't accomplish much. I don't think anyone actually uses the SPF2.0 MFROM record type and you have to list your authorized senders in the record for it to be meaningful.

I would recommend that you study the situation and either get to where you understand it or hire someone that does.

Do it yourself:

http://www.openspf.org/
http://new.openspf.org/Forums
http://new.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID

Have it done for you:

http://www.spfconsulting.com/

SPF (and even more so with SenderID) is a somewhat complex technology.

I'm not suggesting which path you take. There is plenty of free help available if you want to understand all this yourself.

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 05:39 AM

I have read all this, and I actually tried all this wizards and I even came up with this one

"v=spf1 a mx mx:mail.3dcity.com ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all"

Not even this one works for me

Also, those tools that you sent, how can i register to that?

I even e-mailed that senderid@microsoft.com address

I understand all of this, i just don't understand why all the changes i make none of them seem to work

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 05:47 AM

or maybe i need something like this?

spf2.0/mfrom,pra +mx:mail.3dcity.com +ip4:64.15.147.209 -all

is this more meaningful?

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 05:47 AM

Once you make a change you have to wait for your DNS TTL to expire.

Also...

mx:mail.3dcity.com - mail.3dcity.com does not have an MX record, so this will never match. I expect you may want a:mail.3dcity.com.

But then the mail.3dcity.com is 64.15.147.209, so that MX mechanism is redundant anyway.

So, you more likely want:

"v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all"

Here's another link for you:

http://www.kitterman.com/spf/validate.html

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 05:48 AM

The only SPF2.0 record Hotmail will use is the PRA one. No point in publishing SPF2.0 MFROM.

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 05:59 AM

WOW!!! I've actually came across this webpage before
http://www.kitterman.com/spf/validate.html

it's an honor to talk to the webmaster of it i have to say

So my question is

what would be the equivalent of "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" in SPF2.0 PRA?

Or if i publish something like "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" would it work the same as publishing the equivalent of this in SPF2.0 PRA?

Scott Kitterman · 17 Nov 2006, 06:17 AM

It'll work the same.

It would have been a better design had MS not chosen to reuse the v=spf1 records for PRA, but they do and there's not much for me to do about it.

dzisaacs · 17 Nov 2006, 06:31 AM

just posted "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all"

so know that my SPF is correct, is it going to start working?

17 Nov 2006, 03:27 AM	#1
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	Emails not getting to Hotmail I'm trying to configure a mail server and when i send mails to any hotmail account they won't get to my inbox, neither to my junk mail folder..... However when i send them to Yahoo or Gmail, they get there fine... my mail server isn't in a black list , i have a SPF, i don't know why this is happenning...can you give me some guidelines so my mail server will be able to send email to hotmail?

17 Nov 2006, 03:52 AM	#2
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_Message_Deletion http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_SPF http://new.openspf.org/FAQ/Hotmail_and_TempError

17 Nov 2006, 04:10 AM	#3
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	this has been extremely helpful so this means that SPF is useless however, do you know a Sender ID wizard generator or something like that?

17 Nov 2006, 04:21 AM	#4
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	I wouldn't put it that way. Hotmail will use an SPF record just like they would a SenderID specific record (I think this is a bad idea, but it's what they do). If your SPF record is correct and your messages pass (I am assuming that - up to you to check) then that means that from a Hotmail perspective your mail is spammy. They have tools you can sign up for to see what they classify as spam (I'm signed up, but I've never actually seen any spam show up - I also have a small, well screened userbase). Dig around in their information for Postmasters.

17 Nov 2006, 04:58 AM	#5
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	I added this in my TXT Configuration of my domain ( which is where i used to put my SPF info ) “spf2.0/mfrom” Do you think this would help? when you say "They have tools you can sign up for to see what they classify as spam" What kind of tools are you suggesting? Are these Hotmail tools? Would you do me a favor and give me their names? I would REALLY REALLY REALLY APRECIATE THAT!! I've checked and my messages pass....the only error i get is that i don't have a postermaster email , and abuse email...don't know if this make a BIG difference or not...

17 Nov 2006, 05:06 AM	#6
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	What's the domain? I'll look at your record. Hotmail links: http://postmaster.msn.com/ http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx

17 Nov 2006, 05:17 AM	#7
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	Ok I have 2 domains, one LIVE and one that I'm using for testing purposes The one i have LIVE is: epibiz.com The one i have for test is: pdmweb.net I added the Sender ID “spf2.0/mfrom” in pdmweb.net THANK YOU FOR ALL THIS VALUABLE HELP!!!

17 Nov 2006, 05:30 AM	#8
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	Adding just what you added doesn't accomplish much. I don't think anyone actually uses the SPF2.0 MFROM record type and you have to list your authorized senders in the record for it to be meaningful. I would recommend that you study the situation and either get to where you understand it or hire someone that does. Do it yourself: http://www.openspf.org/ http://new.openspf.org/Forums http://new.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID Have it done for you: http://www.spfconsulting.com/ SPF (and even more so with SenderID) is a somewhat complex technology. I'm not suggesting which path you take. There is plenty of free help available if you want to understand all this yourself.

17 Nov 2006, 05:39 AM	#9
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	I have read all this, and I actually tried all this wizards and I even came up with this one "v=spf1 a mx mx:mail.3dcity.com ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" Not even this one works for me Also, those tools that you sent, how can i register to that? I even e-mailed that senderid@microsoft.com address I understand all of this, i just don't understand why all the changes i make none of them seem to work

17 Nov 2006, 05:47 AM	#10
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	or maybe i need something like this? spf2.0/mfrom,pra +mx:mail.3dcity.com +ip4:64.15.147.209 -all is this more meaningful?

17 Nov 2006, 05:48 AM	#12
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	The only SPF2.0 record Hotmail will use is the PRA one. No point in publishing SPF2.0 MFROM.

17 Nov 2006, 05:59 AM	#13
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	WOW!!! I've actually came across this webpage before http://www.kitterman.com/spf/validate.html it's an honor to talk to the webmaster of it i have to say So my question is what would be the equivalent of "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" in SPF2.0 PRA? Or if i publish something like "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" would it work the same as publishing the equivalent of this in SPF2.0 PRA?

17 Nov 2006, 06:17 AM	#14
Scott Kitterman Essential Contributor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA Posts: 206 Representative of: ControlledMail.com	It'll work the same. It would have been a better design had MS not chosen to reuse the v=spf1 records for PRA, but they do and there's not much for me to do about it.

17 Nov 2006, 06:31 AM	#15
dzisaacs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10	just posted "v=spf1 a mx ip4:64.15.147.209 ~all" so know that my SPF is correct, is it going to start working?